The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Hurrah! Really pleased for you count. Hope it continues - can't imagine how it feels anymore to have that much sleep but it sounds lovely! It's just the boost I need as well reading that it can be done after another crappy night here. I'm down to 6 minute feeds now but DS just wakes up crying quite hard at the moment and nothing will do except the boob. It's not going to change on its own though so have to keep going. Know it's early days but do you think you could have got there without Andrea? Would you recommend her? Anyway, another woo hoo for your great night.

judy yes, shortening the feeds isn't easy. I found that each time I moved on to a new increment, DS would cry more and be harder to settle the first night, then sort of got used to it over the next couple of nights. The most crying was when I dropped the feeds completely but the most he cried for was an hour on and off, and never hysterically. To settle him I used the patting technique Enoon described of using a heartbeat rhythm - I sort of patted him on his arm - but that only worked when he was still swaddled. Then when we stopped swaddling I sort of tried jiggling him back and forth in the cot and that really seemed to settle him. Keep going with it - I'm sure you'll get there soon.

Last night could well have been a fluke, as DS has done this before (at 3 months or so though) - I mean, he's never slept that long before but he's done that thing of suddenly sleeping really well for a couple of nights and then getting a bit worse again afterwards. So not counting chickens yet.

Would we have had last night without Andrea? No, I don't think so. The techniques she suggested aren't anything I hadn't heard before - and indeed we haven't at all followed the plan she originally suggested - I've modified it quite a bit to suit DS's temperament and our 'parenting style' . But what has made the difference, I think, is having someone objective to motivate me to make some quite big changes. Partly that's a result of the cost, which was not inconsiderable for us - I didn't feel I could back out having spent that amount. But it's also because I'm almost a bit in awe of Andrea - not in a bad way, she is not remotely scary, she's incredibly warm and friendly - but in that way you might be a bit scared of a teacher in school because you really respect her and she's firm with you and you don't want to disappoint her. It was sort of that feeling that kept me going in the small hours, leaning over DS's cot, patting him until I got a dead arm and shushing him until my throat was dry. When we had our crisis talks the other night Andrea was very firm with us (it was very kind of her to speak to us again - at 8:30pm, for almost an hour) and told us to do some things that felt very scary, like dropping the night feeds and stopping swaddling. But it was only then that we saw a real difference in DS's sleep.

The only thing I would say is that Andrea is firmly in favour of full night weaning at six months. She is very insistent on this point and it has been a bit of a battleground because I insisted on keeping the dreamfeed. But she understood that I needed it to be reassured that DS wasn't hungry in order to drop the rest of the night feeds.

oh wow count!! what a fab night.

I think we are going to properly tackle sleep when DS goes in to his own room next weekend - I think the having to get out of bed to see to him will force it, I am too lazy to do anything before hand as it's quicker to pick him up and cuddle or feed him back to sleep and that's not teaching him how to settle on his own.

Thanks for all the info count and hope tonight is going well. I can really imagine what it's like having an authority figure that you have to report back to. I think we'll have another try ourselves and then consider it. I agree with you about not doing the full night weaning though. I think we need to find a way to get DS to fall asleep without sucking (no dummy, no fingers, no boob) but am a bit nervous.
Good luck with the room move cos - I think I lasted about 3 days before I started co-sleeping when we moved DS!

Sorry - didn't mean that to be as negative as it sounded...

lol don't worry :) I am just hoping he'll sleep better if we're not disturbing him. If he doesnt' there's a chair in his room that will be getting a lot of use!

Ha, well it was fun while it lasted! DS was whingey and hard to settle at bedtime, and woke up just over two hours later. I shushed him back to sleep in seconds, but he woke again an hour later when I came upstairs to give him his dream feed. Put him down 11:15ish.

Then he woke at 2am - shushed him to sleep and went back to bed, but he woke 10 minutes later. Same thing happened 3 or 4 more times. Then he started doing this weird high-pitched scream. Eventually got him up to check for wind etc - fine. Gave Calpol and teething powder - still screaming but alternating with smiles and staring at me. Just couldn't settle him so ended up feeding at 4:30. DH tried to settle him in his cot and he started screaming; I just took over and he went straight off.

Does this sound like teeth to anyone? He was in a funny mood during the day and kept touching his ears. Trying to convince myself that there must be something wrong - even at his very worst (4-month regression etc) he's not been like this so must be a health thing, not a sleep thing, surely?

V worried that he won't settle for DH anymore. What's the point of giving up night feeds if I still have to bloody well get up all the time? Have been awake three and a half hours now. So ... tired ...

Oh dear count :( could well be teeth, I think they often touch their ears for that.

I think I reached the end of my tether last night. DH away so was on my own. He went down ok at 7, slept till 10.30, then wouldn't settle for more than half an hour at a time. I ended up completely losing my rag at 2.30 and got scared at how angry I was so put him in his room and shut the door. Listned to him scream for 15 mins and couldn't cope with the idea of him falling asleep after crying without me so went and got him. Managed to settle him, but then had same issue at 4.30. I was just so angry I can see how people end up shaking their babies I really can :( I ended up gicing some neurofen at 5.30 as he was quite hot by then but don't know if that was just from crying. Finally got a couple of hours sleep by him falling asleep in my bed propped up on pillows sitting up.

Today I am so ashamed of myself I can barely look at him. It's not his fault he has a crap mother who hasn't managed to teach him to sleep. After Christmas he was managing to self settle sometimes in the night and occasionally at bedtime - I seem to have killed that completely somehow. i am now seriously contemplating doing cc as at the moment I can't see another way out. I cant have any nights like that on week nights now I'm back at work.

Oh Cosmosis - you poor thing. What a hideous night. I've been there, and I think a few others on this thread have too. It's awful.

Firstly, you did absolutely the right thing putting him down and walking away for a bit. I've had to do that quite a few times. I've also been frightened sometimes at how angry and frustrated I was feeling, and have felt guilty and awkward around DS the next day. I think it's perfectly normal and natural in the situation - sleep deprivation can really push you to your limits. But it won't have done him any harm.

Secondly, you are not a crap mum at all. On the contrary - you're a loving mother who can't bear to leave her baby to cry - even for 15 minutes. You've been suffering sleep deprivation for months and you could have just shut the door on him, poured yourself a large glass of wine and let him scream himself to sleep ages ago, but you haven't - you've comforted him in the night, you've done everything you can think of to gently encourage him to sleep better. That doesn't sound like a crap mum to me - though I understand why you think that because I've thought it about myself many, many times.

I wouldn't blame you at all if you did CC. It sounds like you've tried everything, you've put up with a lot and you need your sleep now you're back at work. To be honest, if our current plan isn't working before I have a nervous breakdown by the time I go back to work, we will end up doing it too. It didn't work before, but maybe it will when our DS is older. Some babies just don't respond to the gentle methods.

Have you tried just sitting next to him and comforting him in the cot? (Can't remember how you're settling him - know you're not feeding to sleep anymore.) That's how I got my DS to settle a bit more easily. It did involve crying but not excessive amounts.

When is DH back? Can anyone come and help you today while you rest?

Poor you. Just remember, you did the right thing and you're not a crap mum at all.

Thanks count. At the moment I am settling him by holding him in the bf position and rhythmically patting his back - it is working well most of the time. I haven't tried settling him in his cot more than once or twice tbh, perhaps I need to persevere with that for longer. dh is back at about 9ish tonight, not really anyone else who can have him, but I think he'll have a good nap this afternoon as he must be shattered as well, so we may both go to bed for that. I think we need to tackle this head on now as I can feel myself heading for depression again. I really don't want to do CC but it's the only thing I can think of really.

Might be something to try. I think DS cried for about an hour the first time but then was settling really quickly after that (until we stopped swaddling).

Hope you manage to get some rest this afternoon. Really feel for you.

DS's naps have gone to shit this weekend. Just when I thought we were getting there ... little rascal

Well he's been funny all day, lots of tears. Think he's maybe coming down with something, or teething. Thankfully had an hours sleep this afternoon and DH coming home at 7 not 9. It's been a 24 hours I'd rather forget tbh, if I could have given him away I think I would have :( I hate feeling like this, it makes me feel I don't love him. I know I do, but I just can't see past the lack of sleep.

Haven't checked in with you guys in a while but I've just read up on what I've missed! Cosmosis I'm so so sorry to hear you are feeling so down. Please don't make the mistake of thinking it's your fault or that you are in some way to blame. Of course you aren't, and Count is right when she says you're a great, loving mum. You are really going through it at the moment and no-one could blame you for feeling the way you are. I really hope DH can manage to cheer you up/ help out a bit tonight.

Our nights are much of a muchness - neither awful nor great. We are generally up 3 times and I am supposed to be reducing the feeds but DS is just getting over an absolute stinker of a cold so I've been putting the sleep training on hold. It's funny Count, to read that you feel that Angela is an authority figure that you have to report back to and therefore try your best to follow her advice... I think the opposite of my therapist so have to struggle against my instinct to rebel against her!!!! I'm not entirely convinced that she has any all of the answers. I'm so glad to see that you had at least one good night though... shows he can do it...

Oh god, cosmosis you poor thing. Sounds awful. Do not feel in any way inadequate or ashamed about leaving him or getting to the point where you feel you could give him away! I have been there with both of mine. And it is so not about you failing to teach him to sleep. Some are just natural born, dyed in the wool terrible sleepers and you have to battle really hard to knead the difficult materials (no offence meant) into shape. Others you can do everything 'wrong' with and they sleep through from 4 weeks. There's no rhyme or reason.

If you need to give CC a try, then do it, and do it thoroughly, and don't feel guilty. It might go against your instincts but then so does a lot of parenting actually - e.g., having to discipline your toddler for some misdemeanour and your heart breaks for them because they seem so genuinely upset and hurt that you could be telling them off. But you know in the long term it's for the good. Same applies to teaching children to sleep. Short-term pain, long-term gain. And if you decide it's not for you, then have a sickie, take DS round to a willing friend/ relative's house and get a few hours of kip. And have a big virtual hug from me!

Well we had another shit night but know why now - his ear is leaking again this morning so it must have been that. Poor DS :( it's only been less than a week since he finished his anti-bs, so don't know if this is a new infection or that one back again. It does explain why he was happy to sleep propped up again though, that should have made me think as it was the only way he could sleep when he had it before

At least DH was home last night and helped out when I stormed off to the spare room at 2.30.

MEant to say, we had one positive - he started crying at about 10.30, so I went up to bed. usually I would see to him first then get undressed etc, but as my patience was already paper thin, I saw to me first - took lenses out etc. By the time I went in to our bedroom he was asleep again can't have taken more than 5 mins. He's never done that before! He almost did it at 2 as well, but after about a minute's silence he started again and didn't stop that time.

OH yuck, that's awful for you all. Poor you and DS. If his ear's leaking, he may have got a little hole in his eardrum. Borh me and DD have had this. Might need a longer course of antibiotics to clear it up, and/ or a different antibiotic. I first had amoxicillin and then co-amoxiclav to shift mine. Does the discharge smell a bit, er, fishy?

It's really positive that your DS is sending himself off to sleep despite the ear infection. I think that's a really, really positive sign.

Hope he gets better soon.

not noticed any smell, no. He had amoxicillin last week. A friend who is a gp said it's probably a good thing it's leaking as it will relieve the pressure and be a bit less sore for him.

Oh, Cosmosis - poor DS. At least you know now there was a reason for it. Hope he gets better soon and you're not too exhausted today.

DS was up every hour last night, then screamed for an hour and a half from 4am. Think it must be teeth or something. He is fine during the day, but Andrea says teething pain is worse for them at night. Her advice is just to keep our resolve and take our one good night as a positive sign that at least he can do it. I've ended up feeding him in the small hours the last two nights but she was relaxed about this. Sleep training or no sleep training, I'm not going to withold comfort if that's what he needs, especially if his teeth are giving him grief.

Sorry to hear about bad nights and stinking cold, blonde - hope things improve soon.

PS wish me luck. Have finallly reached the point of no return with DS, and his meds have now been sorted, so we are doing sleep training as of today.

Good luck, narmada - what's the plan?

. I have progress to report.

Put DS down in cot for first nap at 12. Lots of screaming. Did a kind of modified pick-up-put-down and a bit of rocking in his cot by pulling on his sleeping bag. Took a good 45 minutes of this to get him asleep. Slept for 25 minutes only (but this is not unusual for him at all). Just put down for second nap as he is very very overtired. Took 5 minutes of gently rocking him. He is sparko. No screaming really. Some low-level grumbling.

I am sure he will now get used to me rocking him in his cot, but hey ho. It's progress.

count sorry you had a rubbish night by the way. Teeth - don't you just hate them? The thing I've noticed with DD is that she was be much more bothered by the first ones than she was by subsequent ones, so take heart. She's just had her last 4 molars and save for a couple of 5.30 am wake-ups, it didn't seem to bother her at all by and large.

cosmosis, yes, I definitely remember mine actually feeling a bit less sore once it had perforated. Sounds a bit alarming but I think it's only nature taking its course - the gunk/ pressure has to get out/ be relieved somehow.

Ooh narmada that sounds like a good nap result! I reckon rocking in the cot isn't so bad as will be easier to reduce than rocking in arms.

Sorry you had a bad night count, your poor DS I hope his teeth are through soon.