The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

DS has woken every hour since 12:30. I am at an utter loss. Andrea's only suggestion is the rapid return/CC thing but how can I repeat something that had my baby still screaming hysterically and flinging himself against the cot bars after an hour and a half?

We're still at square one and a couple of hundred quid worse off :( :(

I'm taking DS to the doctor to check for reflux. I really don't think he has it but I guess we need to rule it out.

Oh Count, am really sorry that things don't seem to be getting better.

It's so difficult that the only way of getting them to sleep better seems to be (however it is dressed up) "let them cry". Could it be something like teething? Good to check reflux out with the doctor, and see what their take is on the frequent waking.

Hope things improve for you and your DS.

Oh count, I'm really sorry :(. I know this is no help but if even a sleep expert can't help at least you know you are not doing anything wrong. I'm not sure if it is better or worse knowing that. I really hope things get better soon.

Really sorry count :(

narmada I don't think it's that as he's refusing again today, which was what I pumped yesterday. Will post on feeding section for suggestions.

Oh no, cosmosis. Hope you get that sorted soon.

Well, we had crisis talks with Andrea yesterday evening and agreed we would drop the night feeds immediately (I insisted on keeping the 10pm one though, much to her exasperation - I think I must be her nightmare client). I fed him at 9:30pm (he woke early) and he slept 10-1. He cried for an hour at 1, but it wasn't as bad as it sounds - it was very on and off, and not at all hysterical, more cross and frustrated. I settled him by shushing and patting. Then he woke at 3:30 and cried for half an hour, then 5:10 and cried for 20 minutes. Then up at 6:15

So not nearly as awful as I imagined, but I have basically been awake all night though I feel fine - think am running on adrenaline though ...

The next thing we have to do is get rid of the swaddling. Andrea and I agree that it's working against us now as DS can only settle swaddled but is strong enough to escape from it when he wakes at night. He then can't get back to sleep because his arms are flailing all over the place. So tonight I have to do bedtime as usual and put him down unswaddled, and stay in the room with him until he falls asleep, preferably without me touching him. I think that's going to be really tough and there will be a lot of crying, but I won't be leaving him alone and can console him etc. I think the problem with things like CC and PUPD is that he gets confused because the situation keeps changing - we've had a lot more success by being a sort of constant presence next to him.

Wish me luck ...

Good luck count. It sounds really good that Andrea is working with you to find a solution. Let us know how you get on tonight.
I need to make the leap to settling DS without touching him - guess it can't be done without some crying. He has a stinking cold at the moment and is waking frequently in the night. He'll only settle with a feed unlike before - really hoping nights get better again when it goes.

good luck again count, that night doesn't actuall sound too bad if you think it might continue to improve, iyswim!

Yes, absolutely, wasn't nearly as bad as I thought!

Good luck for tonight Count! Sounds like dropping the night feeds was not too traumatic. Hope stopping swaddling is the same.

Sounds like progress count. Good luck. Be interested to know how the deswaddling goes.

Well, he's been in bed 20 minutes amd has just been flapping about amd gurgling to himself. Not sure he quite knows what to do. Is just starting to get upset now. I've tucked a cotton sheet over him tightly to help him feel a bit more secure and given him a comforter teddy bear thing to hold (inspired by narmada and her bit of dressing gown!).

Update - he cried on and off for about an hour while I pottered round the room, talking to him soothingly and giving him a kiss or pat every couple of minutes. Again, he never got hysterical as with the CC. Eventually he seemed to be ramping up a bit so I gave him a quick cuddle in the cot and rested my cheek against his soft little face and he went to sleep all of a sudden He's now lying there clutching the teddy and with his hands up next to his head - he looks so cute.

Glad he's gone off, but not sure I should have cuddled him to sleep - whoops. Oh well, can always withdraw contact over subsequent nights. Just pleased again that it was actually fine and not too traumatic for either of us. I could tell from the beginning that he was trying to settle himself because he kept putting his head to one side, so he was just cross and frustrated rather than scared and distressed (as he was with the CC).

Update no 2: after DS went to sleep I fell asleep on the sofa. DH woke me up at 11:15 and he was still asleep! So didn't do dreamfeed until 11:40. Was v pleased he'd slept for three hours, which is rare these days and unheard of unswaddled.

Then he woke at 2:30. I went in, checked his nappy, tucked him back in and shhed and stroked him a bit and he went back to sleep within just a couple of minutes

Then woke again at 5:10. Much more difficult to settle this time. He cried for 45 minutes and seemed to get quite upset. I ended up holding his hands and shushing but he went off again around 5:55 and slept until 7:05.

Will obviously have to work on withdrawing contact but was v surprised he slept as well as he did, as previously he could only manage an hour or so at a time with his arms out.

Wow count that is impressive!

We had another row last night. I went out with friends, didn?t go till after he was down, but he wok 20 mins after I went and spend the next 3 hours alternating 20 mins sleep 20 mins crying. DH totally stressed by it all and yelling at me when I got in saying we had to sort it. Which I agree, but why is it always me who has to come up with the plan and implement the plan? When I got home he had a feed and then went down ok. I think he was just reacting to DH?s stress before that.

That's great count, well done. Did he not seem to miss being fed?

' Which I agree, but why is it always me who has to come up with the plan and implement the plan?' Cosmosis we have exactly the same row except dh seems to take the view that there is nothing we can do and often gets dd up instead of persevering with settling her.

Well done count - that sounds great! Keep us posted how it goes.

BTW, have any of you talked to your neighbours before doing any sleep training? I've been pretending they can't hear anything but today my next door neighbour asked if DS was alright as he was "screaming well last night". I wasn't actually doing any sleep training but he's been really unsettled with the cold the last few days. I'm back to feeding at least every 2 hours (last night at 9.30pm, 11.30pm, 2am, 4am and 5am - ugh!). At 11.30pm I tried to settle him and I just couldn't soothe him so fed him after maybe 15 minutes of crying. Things had been getting better lately so I'm really hoping things go back to how they were once it's better but when this whole nightmare started in January I thought it was just a cold for the first few nights.
I'm now wondering if I should let them know if I do anything that I know will involve lots of crying. We don't really talk much though and I'd feel quite awkward going round but maybe I should. Thing is they have 2 very annoying yappy dogs that seem to be outside all night. Quite often when DS wakes they are barking but I don't know which one is disturbing the other. Anyway, just wondered if anyone else had this problem and how you tackled it.
Hope tonight goes well for you all.

I haven't actually - we have elderly neighbours on the side of the house nearest to DS's room, and when he was about 6 weeks old DH bumped into one of them and apologised for the noise (DS was an awful colicky screamer when tiny - hours and hours every evening). The neighbour said he hadn't even realised we had a baby! (Not as odd as it sounds - we hadn't lived there long when DS was born and I worked full time until late in pregnancy so never really saw them.) So either they're a bit deaf or very very polite!

bumper he's taken the lack of feeds in his stride really. I think that's the good thing about that method - I started with 10 mins, which is almost a full feed for him (he takes about 15mins in the daytime) and he really didn't seem that bothered when I reduced the duration. It reassured me that he wasn't hungry (as did keeping a 10/11pm feed, against Andrea's advice). There was crying when I dropped the feeds completely, but I think that was because he expected to suck to get back to sleep in the night; but obviously he would have hardly taken any milk in the 3min feeds the night before, which he didn't cry about, IYSWIM.

Although we've not really tried any specific sleep training....I am surprised our neighbours in our block haven't heard DS crying in the night, but apparently they've not heard a thing.

Judy - after DS being really ill with cold, then fever, he has gone back to normal sleep pattern at night with two feeds from every two hours. But we've only had a few nights of normalcy so we'll see. BTW, I think osteopath visit has really helped. He will now feed to sleep and can be put in cot in the day (this hasn't happened since he was 3 weeks). So although this might not be ideal I just think he is a lot more relaxed. He fell asleep on my chest today in a coffee shop - unheard of. Hope your DS feels better soon and you get some rest. I don't think anything could prepare me for a sick baby!

Count - hope tonight goes well too - great news on last night.

PS judy hope your DS gets better soon. Must be a nightmare, poor you.

PPS Cosmosis sorry to hear about the row. I totally sympathise. DH and I had never had a single row in five years together until DS came along! Having a non-sleeping baby really puts a strain on relationships, I find. The number of times my DH has said to me "we've got to sort this out, we can't go on like this". And I'm a bit like, well, yeah, but what do you want me to do about it?! At least he never says "just leave him to cry" anymore, since that disastrous night we did the CC-esque rapid return thing. Think he was as traumatised as I was! (Not that am judgey about CC - but it clearly didn't work for DS.) Hope you have an OK night.

we have also had that row on a regular basis, cosmosis. Thank god we live in a house with no immediate neighbours - fear they would have reported us to social services in the early weeks on account of DS's inconsolable, sleepless crying and DH's survival method, which involved the wearing of industrial ear defenders while pacing wailing child up and down and up and down...

narmada how is DS? Feeding any better?

DS has slept for over four hours this evening! probably would have gone longer but have just woken him for his dreamfeed. I took him into my office today and he got very tired, so maybe that's why. I did also try to get him to fall asleep at bedtime without me in sight - just held his hands to settle him then went and sat behind the cot until he went off. Whatever the reason, long may it continue!

He slept until 5am!!! And then when he woke I went in and held his hands and shushed and told him it wasn't time to get up yet, and he just went straight back to sleep!! for almost another hour!

So basically he slept from 7:30pm until 5am without waking (apart from the dreamfeed just before midnight).

Am literally in shock. And I went to bed at 8:30pm last night because I was so shattered, so I've had loads of sleep. I feel almost drunk ...