The 'newborn - sleep nightmare' continuation thread, Cosmosis, count, emo etc. Still a sleep nightmare?

[Bumperlicious]

Just thought I'd catch up with all of you from the last thread to see if now we've moved on from the newborn stage things are any better?

Dd2 is nearly 5 months and sleep is still hit and miss. She is not good at sleeping when out and about so mornings are either spent at home or I choose to socialise and spend the rest of the day fighting to get her to sleep.

She still rarely goes down in the evening despite me trying for 1.5 hours. Eventually goes down 11.30ish and still often wakes twice a night

Am knackered, no end in sight. How's everyone else doing?

Count, my DD definitely needed night feeds till about 8 months of age. And she was mahoosive, so size is definitely not a guide. She incidentally was very very slow on uptake with solids and so didn't have that to fall back on. She didn't sleep through until she was a year BUT she did get to the point after sleep training where she would have a quick feed and then go back down awake. I was more than happy with that after having had months of middle-of-the-night rock-back-to-sleepathons. So what I'm saying is that I'm sure the method YOU choose will work, maybe not perfectly, but thuings will improve.

Nightmare on the sleep front here. DS is refusing feeds in day on account of reflux and problems with cow's milk. Just had an hour-long screamathon with added trying-to-catapult-himself-out-of-my-arms.Asleep now in my arms, but not gor long I would hazard....

"months of middle-of-the-night rock-back-to-sleepathons" - oh, I hear you! That was awful. DS used to take 45 minutes to feed and sometimes up to an hour to go back to sleep. I do thank my lucky stars that we don't have to go through that anymore (though he still can't settle in the cot for naps, weirdly).

Poor you and poor DS. Must be so stressful knowing that he's in pain :( :( Hope you both get some rest.

He is, bizarrely, ok almost without fail from 12 pm till 6 am. Not a peep. That may make me a bit of a fraud on here I fancy.

I just don't know how much of it with DS is habit and how much real discomfort. I think quite a lot is habit now, but I feel uncomfortable with much crying when I can't be sure. Mind, there is a fair bit of crying no matter what we do!

Sweet dreams all round.

Not a fraud at all! Sleep nightmares come in all shapes and sizes ...

We had a good night. Did the dream feed just after 10 - DS barely woke and was all dozy and floppy - aww . He slept for nearly three hours. Didn't object to 10-min feed, but I had to change him and he got a bit excitable and wouldn't settle. He was starting to make frustrated noises and I was worried he'd go off on one, so I leaned over him and whispered "It's sleepy time" over and over, and he went very still and eventually went off around 2:30. Then up for the day just before 6.

So not bad at all - I feel better for only having got up once even though my stretches of sleep weren't much longer than usual. Hoping it's a sign of progress and not just a blip!

How is everyone doing?

Count that sounds a bit better. Fingers crossed it keeps up.

Cos hope the room move goes ok - it's something i think will make a big difference to us as sure we wake him up even with moving the duvet.
We seem to be on mainly 3 hourly wake ups but sometimes two. So not a lot better. Down at 7.15 last night, fed at 10, 1 then 3 and nearly 6. The prob again is getting him settled after the feeds. Ended up in our bed after 3am as just wouldn't settle. Hey ho.

V interesting what the sleep consultants said. Hope it works for you all.

Hi everyone. So pleased to hear that you are feeling a bit more positive, Count.

We've had a pretty good week really - every night since Monday has had one four hour stretch and we've had some good naps. Last night was not so good - up every 2 hours, I don't know why although I guess his naps weren't great yesterday. I do feel as though we've turned a bit of a corner - all of a sudden DS is able to stay up til 6pm, and then start the nighttime routine, where previously he was melting down and having overtired screaming fits at 5pm on the dot. It's nothing I've done, as I've always tried to ensure he has decent naps (with varying success), I really do feel as though he is just growing up. I'll let you know what the sleep consultant says this morning though - am slightly embarrassed to bring her my sleep diary!

Also, I am absolutely thrilled to say that he has started to nap unswaddled! We were at a friend's house on Wed and he fell asleep feeding (unlike him during the day) and I decided to put him in my friend's baby's cot. I didn't have anything to swaddle him with so just didn't... and he slept for 50 minutes! I usually experiment with unswaddling him every couple of weeks, but never with any success. So since then he's had his daytime naps unswaddled and it's been great. I'm a bit scared to try at night - but maybe it would help - who knows?! Bumper I know your DD is a swaddle addict too - this has really given me hope that it's just a case of being patient and waiting for them to grow out of it!

salander and blonde I feel your pain - every 2-3 hours is a killer, isn't it?

Great news on the naps and swaddling, blonde. Agree with you that some things just come naturally as they get bigger. DS is regularly having a nice long nap - 1-2 hours - in the mornings (2 hours this morning, and I slept for most of it too!). I haven't done anything to encourage this - it's just happened. We still have to straitjacket swaddle him for naps or he just won't settle, but we do a looser one at bedtime and he usually gets an arm out at some point but sleeps quite happily like that now (would have woken up before).

We're away next week at my dad's so I think wil try the room move after that. We had a v wakeful period at 1-2ish, but once he got back to sleep he slep vv well last night, so mixed night here. I am just finding it hard to knoe when to feed and when to resettle.

Yes cos that's what I wonder too. Was trying to resettle if less than 3 hours since last feed but last night fed after 2 hours as in sleep deprived state couldn't see clock properly. Better if dh does the resettling but he on a shitty on call weekend so am on my own. Ulp.

Sleep consultant a bit disappointing. She spent AGES telling me the theory of sleep cycles (I have read a million books about sleep, I KNOW) and has given us these main points -

1. Stop using white noise
2. Move DS back from swinging crib into cot so he can't be rocked
3. Cut down BF by one minute per night.

She had no answer when I said, yes, but how do I get him to settle without a feed/ at the end of a short feed when even being in the room with him seems to upset him even more? Just dodged the question really. DH is supposed to do more of the settling but again, how? So now I've paid my money and my instinct is, DS might well improve by his own sweet self!

Glad to hear some of you are getting on a bit better (sounds like progress count). Not sure we're making much headway but at least I feel less tired by co-sleeping for some of the night. I'm the same as cos and salander thought that I try and resettle if less than 3 hours but forget what is going on in the middle of the night or just go for the easy option if he doesn't settle quickly.
Last night DS was asleep by 7pm, resettled at 8 and 9pm. Then fed at 10pm, 12.30am, 3.10am and up at 5.30am (with no wakings in between). That's actually better than it was before and he's getting easier to settle on the evening wakings.
I'm not liking the pre-6am mornings though. He was crying when he woke at 5.30am so I tried to feed him back to sleep but he wouldn't go back down. Maybe he does just need 10 hours sleep? What time do you start the first nap when they wake so early? I try to hold out until at least 7.30am as any earlier seems ridiculous. We're still on the short naps too - would love it if they stretched out a little .

pidgin -how have you been getting on with the baby sleep answers site?

That's a shame about the sleep consultant beingblonde, but good to hear about the swaddle.

Had a rubbish night last night as both the girls have bad coughs. Another rare evening sans baby though (becoming less rare thankfully), still required a couple of feeds settles. Was going to leave her but she woke up when I came to bed at 10ish so I fed her. Then she woke again at 11.30 just as I'd drifted off, then (after being woken at 2.30 by dd1 coughing) not till 4.00 but I fed her and was about to put her down when she coughed so hard she vomited all her milk up involving a complete change for both of us a sheets stripped. So back down by 5.30 and awake again at 7.30.

Also her cough is preventing her napping so she is knackered and I think she is teething (anyone remind me how I can tell? Dd1 didn't get teeth till 9 months). Fortunately, all going well, I get two nights off in honour or my birthday! Not sure if that will happen in reality with both dc being under the weather.

Hello all! How are your girls, bumper? any better?

Well, we're six nights into sleep training and it's hard to know if it's making a difference or not. On the one hand, DS is still waking very frequently. On the other hand, I think we have had more 3hr stretches lately. He's also getting easier to settle to sleep - not always, but there have been a couple of occasions lately when he's gone to sleep surprisingly quickly. On Friday night he went to sleep in his cot about five seconds after I turned the light off, and after one of the short night feeds on Saturday I put him in his cot awake and he fell asleep while I was swaddling him!

It does feel a bit one step forward, two steps back though; after settling so well at bedtime on Friday we had two hours of screaming in the night, and the last two nights he's woken up halfway through the evening before we've even got to the dream feed.

The clocks going forward has been a PITA too. DS woke in the small hours of Sunday morning and I thought he'd done four and a half hours and got really excited until I realised the clock on my iPhone had automatically put itself forward. And it was a nightmare trying to settle him at bedtime last night with sunshine spilling over the top of his blackout curtains. Conversely when he woke at 6am today it was pitch black!

How is everyone doing?

I wondered if I could join in? My DS2 is a nightmare at nights and so I should fit in quite nicely. After 2 very bad nights of about 7 wake ups, last night was a little better - I fed him at 11.30pm, 3am and 5am (he's 5 months). In with me from 3am. I don't do a dream feed - there is no point as he often wakes before this anyway. And before 12 weeks he slept for up to 8 hours during the first part of the night and I didn't want to mess this up! But since 12 weeks its been pretty bad - every hour, every 2 hours, a stint of being awake for 2 hours in the middle of night, up for the day at 5am....basically anything goes.

We've definitely got into a cycle of feeding back to sleep, although I am convinced he is also hungry. But he generally goes ballistic if DH tries to settle him instead. To top things off, in the last few nights DS1 has started waking (4yo) and being inconsolable for mummy, asking if daddy can feed DS2 with a bottle instead (which is doing wonders for DH's self esteem ).

Count, what sleep training are you doing?

Hi camperfan, join in the fun! We are low on solutions that work, but high on ideas and support

Poor you and DH. I have the opposite problem here, DD1 is such a daddy's girl and sadly DD2 and increased the wedge between us as he is dealing with her mostly while I deal with DD2. Yesterday she said she liked daddy and DD2 best and me last :(.

The girls aren't really any better. DD2 has coughed up her milk the last three nights, and again this morning. It's really hard to get her off to sleep too as every time she drifts of she starts coughing, so we've been up for nearly 2 hours each of the last 3 nights. And it's my 30th birthday today too

Sounds like progress over all count. There are going to be things that bugger things up like teeth, illness and the bloody clocks, but at least he is settling better and hopefully the bad bits will become blips rather than the good bits!

Happy birthday Bumper! [birthday cake emoticon]

Oh, sod it -

30, eh? God, I feel like such an old trout

Hope you have a lovely day.

Welcome Camper. I'm using a sleep consultant called Andrea Grace. Basically we're trying to wean my DS off night feeds (between 11pm and 6am) by gradually reducing feed duration and putting him back down awake rather than feeding to sleep. We've been doing it nearly a week and I'd say it's going OK - progress is slow but we are wimps about leaving him alone to cry so it's not going to be a quick fix.

Happy birthday bumper!! Hope you manage to have some time to yourself today and the girls are a bit better.

Welcome camperfan - your situation sounds very like mine though I only have one to deal with. It's exhausting isn't it.

We're not getting on much better though I do feel less tired by co-sleeping some of the night. I think DS is waking slightly less but I'm feeding him to sleep more. He's waking up crying at the moment and won't go back to sleep unless I feed him. I've been trying to time them and it's generally less than 5 minutes so don't think it's hunger most of the time (though there was feed where I woke up after 20 mins and he was still attached...). Count, do you wake your DS up if he falls asleep while feeding? How does that work? Glad things are getting there - is Andrea still supportive of your softer approach?

Happy birthday Bumper! you young thing! I can barely remember 30

we had an bad night last night, but a bad day yesterday and today as well, we think he's teething :(

Cosmosis we think DS might be teething too. He is feeding like a loon during the day (though that might be because I've cut down night feeding) and really chomping - I'm getting sore for the first time since he was a newbie - plus he had suspiciously rosy cheeks last night. We gave him Calpol just in case and he managed a couple of 3-hour stints.

Judy my DS has never really fed to sleep that much anyway - certainly not at bedtime, when he's at his most hyper, bouncing around and grinning like a Cheshire cat. For night feeds, he's always needed 20mins or so to go back to sleep, so these days he's always awake when I take him off.

Oh Happy Birthday bumper! I am hoping by my birthday (June), that we may have a few good nights...

Judy, I have to co-sleep most of the time, like you say to get enough sleep. DH has been usurped and is in the spare room. Also, I don't fancy letting him cry either - and until I feel like I know he is not hungry I wouldn't be happy to do so!

Today he had his first ever nap in cot that was longer than 45mins! 1.5 hrs! But this evening, disaster of disasters, he has gone down without feeding! Argh...surely that means he is going to wake up VERY soon absolutely famished?

BTW, bumper, DS1 did also say he liked Daddy better than me a couple of months ago - I am sure it is something they all say, esp when they are having a lot of attention from one parent. How old is she?

Hello all, and happy birthday bumper! Hope you enjoy your milestone birthday - when are you going away?

I've been avoiding this thread as things have not been so good here...but reading about Count's progress makes me feel better...think the problem is that we have not been consistent in our approach, and things have been getting worse not better. Takes him ages to settle for bedtime (he now starts screaming as soon as he is put into the cot), I've stopped restricting the feeds so he's probably feeding more in the night than ever before! he is waking early, and naps are a mess. Hmmm.

Basically I bottled out of doing the 3 minute feeds. I have a real difficulty with crying at 4 in the morning (which is what happens) but he'll never sleep any better if he feeds so much at night.

Hi all. Not much different here. DS now in bed with me for most of the night as coping strategy. Have got him on a routine based on baby sleep answers/ Tizzie Hall and started introducing solids so that we can work up to three meals a day by 6 months - both of these on advice of health visitor.

Judy, sorry to take ages to answer your question. We have decided to wait until 6 months to do proper sleep training, partly because I think it is going to involve cc, and partly because DH has some time off work then. I have booked a consultation with baby sleep answers for then so don't really know how good they are yet. It's only fifty quid so figure not much to lose... they have been prompt at answering questions etc. Sorry not to be more helpful.

Hi all, and belated happy birthday Bumper!

Things are kind of steady here. DS is feeding 2-3 times a night, and going down relatively well afterwards. We have started to leave him to cry a little, but only when I absolutely know he's not hungry and it's not distressed crying, just frustrated "I'm knackered' crying. I'm not doing the reduced feeds tonight as I ran out of gripe water yesterday, and his wind has been awful tonight, poor wee thing. Feeding seems to comfort him so I'm ignoring the 7 minute thing.

He's actually been asleep since 1.50, but I'm up with the worst earache I've ever had! This is my second bad cold in six weeks, but last time it was my throat that was worst. Owwwww my poor ears. Hope others' nights are going well...