Could you look at our routine?

[Beabea]

Any guidance about what we can change to make DD sleep till a reasonable hour. She has just turned 1 and started nursery 2 weeks ago for 2 days per week.

Wakes anytime from 4.30am
Bottle 7oz anytime between 4.30-6am on average 5.30am
Breakfast at 8.30 as this is when nursery gives it. Cant do any earlier as they open at 8am.
Bottle 9oz about 10.30am- 11ish
Nap sometime between 10.45am 11.30am depending where we are and what we are doing. Sleeps between 45mins to 1.5 hrs.
Lunch around 1pm
At nursery has a small tea at about 4pm and then at home has a proper tea about 5pm. When at home all day tea is at 4.30pm
Bath about 5.30pm
Bottle about 6-6.30pm
bed soon after up till about 7pm normally

We introduced an early morning bottle at 6am as she started nursery and this is where things seemed to go wrong. She now wants it on waking first thing. I think if we can move the bottle till later she may sleep later. How do I do this? Day time nap also needs to be addressed. Sometimes she has 2 naps if she has a 45min sleep.Will only let her have half an hour or else she doesnt go to bed till 8-8.30pm .

Something needs to change. Some of the day works very well but other bits are not good at all.

Anyone able to point us in the right direction?

Thanks

good luck - let us know how it goes - there's something so debilitating about getting up at 5ish with a small child but I think we all go through it at some stage!

Foxinsocks -missed the bit about breakfas.

Yes she does eat ricecrispies with milk. Having a midmorning snack is a good idea.

Now I need fresh ideas for this that are dairy free and easy to give if out and about. Banana, soya yoghurt but may be too heavy.

Organix cereal bar? (is she ok with chewy stuff?)

aaah we were dairy free at that age (oh the joys!)

we went through a lot of rice cakes (especially those marmite ones), bananas, apples, breadsticks, some of the cereal bars aimed at children (the sort of organix ones - I can't remember what age those are from), soft dried fruit (like apricots), raisins, cold toast, bread

They all sound great. But looks like we wont be doing any of your suggestions as DH doesnt want to change her routine.

We shall be trying to move her first bottle of the day later each morning. Im not sure how he wants to do this but will enquire in a mo!!!!

I would maybe think about cutting the milk down quite a lot especially if your lo is only eating a small amount of solids. The minimum intake from the age of 1 is only 350mls (around 12 ounces), so your lo is taking the majority of her milk intake not too long before her lunch is supposed to be.

I'm not saying to stop giving milk at 10:30 - I'd just drastically reduce the amount or alternatively give a snack instead.

This my dd's routine

wake - around 6.15/6.30
breakfast - 7.30/8.00 (before 13 months dd had a bottle at 7am and breakfast at 8am - at 13 months I dropped the bottle and gave a small cup of milk along with breakfast instead)
snack - 10.30 (fruit/cheesy biscuits, breadsticks, etc)
nap - 11.45/12noon for 1.5-2hours
lunch - 1.30/2pm
dinner - 5.30/6pm
small avent cup of milk before bed along with stories - 7.15pm

dd is normally asleep by 8pm at the latest - sometimes by 7.30pm if she is really tired. We did have a spell of her waking at 5.30 ready to start the day but we tried 'wake to sleep' (disturb them a bit an hour before their usual wake up time i.e. for me 4.30am!! to bring them out of deep sleep but without waking them fully. It re-jigs their sleeping pattern to help break the cycle of early waking. You're supposed to try it for at least 3 days as long as you've ruled out anything else that might be waking them e.g. too hot/cold, light coming in windows, noises, etc)

Sorry for rambling on BTW

Seona1973 Thanks for your suggestion. I didnt realise she was supposed to have that much less milk. I thought it was still 20oz.

Oh dear another idea to put to DH he hates change if you hadnt already guessed.

We have agreed to try his idea for 3 days then we shall try mine. Unless it has worked.

Cheers to all for your suggestions

well my hv told me that dd (11mth) should still be having 20oz a day, she will quite happily drink nearly 2 pints (dunno how many ozs that is) of cows milk a day yet refuses formula (took a lot of persueding even when she was little) and she eats like a trooper.

id suggest cut your lo's milk down some but not drasticly as they are all different, try and get to a happy medium that suits him/her (sorry didnt get a chance to read through fully just scanned)

good luck and remember as long as he/she is putting on weight it doesn't really matter what ratio milk/food is as long as you'v disscussed it with a hv (to make sure they aren't puttin on too much weight or eating/drinking something unsuitable) and it suits your child!!

Thanks Staceym11 - havent had DD weighed in ages. I was going to do it on Wed. Will chat to HV then. Most of mine are useless though.

Thanks. Off to bed now as I may have an early start!

Hi Beabea .... I didn't answer your earlier question as I went to bed (I live in NZ)
My DD's routine goes something like this ...
Awake at 6.30/7am. She has a bowl of porridge at around 7ish.
I give her a bottle of milk at 9am when we get back from school.
Out and about doing stuff (playgroup, supermarket, swimming etc etc)
Home by 11.30.
Lunch at about 11.45
Bed at 12.15/12.30
Up at 2/2.30pm
Off the school to pick up DS
Dinner at 5/5.30pm
Bath at 6.30pm
Bottle after bath
Bed at 7/7.15pm

She doesn't eat a huge lunch I have to say ... but in NZ I found that kids eat a hot cooked dinner and so I started doing the same when we moved here with DS. Lunch is a sandwich, bits of ham, slices of cucumber, a muesli bar and a yoghurt, that kind of thing .... she only really eats the yoghurt ... the rest ends up on the floor.
I find she is quite hungry when we come home from school so I give her healthy snacks, like slices of apple, more muesli bar, microwave popcorn ... that sort of thing.
She doesn't really eat a great dinner either but I think that is an age thing rather than a lack of hunger thing (she won't let me feed her) but I actually don't worry about her eating or not eating meals, as long as she eats healthy snacks and gets all the food groups into her during a day that is what is important at the moment IMO ... The main thing is that Lunch and Dinner are had in her high chair and she knows that is a meal time ... when DS is eating his ... so I am hoping eventually the idea will sink in

Well we now have no idea where we are. DD woke at 4.30am. We tried the pick up put down method without success. Gave her a bottle 7oz 10mins later than yesterday to try and get her to have it later. Finally at 6.10 she went to sleep. I had just sat by her cot with her in a blanket in my arms. I was too tired to PUPD any more. I put her in her cot and left her. She woke up and I laid her down again. This time she stayed and went off to sleep till 8am. She woke and chatted for 10 mins.

She had breakfast as usual at 8.30am we skipped her usual bottle and she had a little snack and water at 11am. Quick trip to the park and back for lunch at 12noon. Tried lunch but was too tired to eat. Wouldnt go in her cot so opted for buggy. She went off no problem. Woke just over an hour later and has only eaten half what she normally would.

We now have no idea what to do next.

Very tempted to go back to our normal routine as she ate well then. I guess we can't have everything.

Thanks for reading if you got this far.

have you got any more children coz i know its harder then as you have to plan round them, if not try just to give her a bottle just before she eats a meal (around 6/7oz's in each) she'll prob have half and the rest afterwards (thats how dd works) if shes too tired to eat then just let her have a nap and feed her later (which is something that wont work if you have to work round others!) dd hasnt had lunch yet coz she was tired so i put her to bed, she'l have lunch when she gets up, its no problem.

as for waking at 4.30 the best way (i find) is to go in lay dd back down (as she now stands up) give her her dum dum, put her quilt on, say mummy loves you very much, and walk out, always shutting the door (so she knows she is to go to bed. soem days she has a bad time and i do this for almost an hour but most of the time i only have to do it twice. saying that this morning she had her morning bottle (usually around 7) at half 4 coz she was hungry and i could tell she was hungry, i fed her in the dark and put her back in her cot afterwards and she went off till 9.

all i can really say is try and be persistant, if you lay down, lay down, lay down eventually she'll think 'whats the point' but sometimes theyr so stubborn it takes a while (like dd) if you give in they remember which makes it harder the next time, i know its hard enough already so it might be worth getting it over and done with. and we'r all here for you to moan at that your tired. but saying that if you really cant do it over and over your routine isnt hurting her and you'll prob gfet used to it, just weigh up your options! HTH

Only one child - thats why I probably feel so inexperienced.

When we put DD down in cot she is crying again before I can get her in there. When I pick her up again she is pulling and pushing and climbing up over my shoulder.

You all make it sound so easy.

Aw, Beabea, what is easy is giving advice about someone else's baby, not doing it yourself! It is no problem for us to sit here dispensing wisdom, but when it's your own little one who's crying and not eating properly, it's another matter.

Sorry this is so hard for you at the moment. I had many periods like this when ds was young and was sometimes in despair, when suddenly things would often right themselves without me actually doing anything. We are in a bit of a crisis at the moment as he is a real sod to get to sleep in the day, yet if he stays up he is knackered and struggles to eat his tea. However I know in a month or two this will be in the past and I will be worrying about something else. Try not to get too down about it (easy to say I know) and persevere, you will get there in the end...

Thanks Franyf I've often given the same advice to others. Just as you think youve got it cracked they change again.

Sorry you are having a hard time too.

I dont really feel like doing much about it today. The fact is I miscarride last Sunday night and I am feeling rather exhausted after it all. Also dispite the bleeding nearly stopped I am getting lots of pain today. Went to hospital again yesterday and have antibiotics now just in case of infection.

Best go clear up after DD as there is rice everywhere downstairs.

Beabea, no wonder it is getting on top of you. I hope you can rest and recover after the miserable time you have had.

I find it is really easy to assume everyone else has a perfect routine with their child (and most people would like to give you that impression). I wonder how many people actually have a routine that works every day, I know we never have! We just muddle along and it doesn't seem to have done ds or us any lasting harm. Hope tomorrow is a better day for you.

Me too. I just hope and pray that DD sleeps a bit longer tomorow morning.

I think I am going to get a hot water bottle and jump into bed for a bit.

Have a good rest Beabea. Take care of yourself...

oh beabea, im sorry to hear that, i know people make it sound so easy and its not, especially with something like that hanging over your head, iv just gone through the same thing and it is hard, you have to pick a time when you aren't tired/emotional (like there'l ever be a time like that!) and try then, if you ever need a sholder to cry on there are plenty of us here, maybe you'll wanna know about when the rest of us give up (like when i got up at 3 am last week because dd decided it was morning and i just didnt have the willpower to keep putting her to bed) we all do it and its stressful, but she will grow out of it, and there will be a light at the end of your tunnel, even if all you can see is darkness, good luck, let us know how its going and we'r here if you want an ear to bend!

Beabea I'm really sorry to hear about your m/c. Trying to tackle problems when you're feeling low is really difficult.

I know lots of people have replied already but I had a really similar problem with my ds when he was around 12 months. He woke at 5.30 for a BF every morning and would go back to sleep afterwards for an hour or so, but I couldn;t get back off and I was getting really exhausted (he had never slept through anyway).

So basically I just started ignoring him when he woke at 5.30. I know it sounds awful but I bought some earplugs, and when he started crying (and it was never full on crying, just whingey "I'm awake and isn't it milk time?" type crying), I put the earplugs in, which meant I could still hear him, but only very faintly.

I gave him 10 minutes and if he was still crying after that I would go in to him. This only happened once, as he did otherwise go back off again.

After about 5 mornings of 5-10 minutes crying he stopped waking at all and fairly soon afterwards started sleeping until 7.30-8am!!

I also think that if you dd is only having 1 nap it would be better after lunch, the reason she can't get past lunch is she is too tired from being up early (again, had the same problem!).

I would also say think about reducing / dropping her mid morning bottle as that is probably why she isn;t hungry for lunch. You can give her a snack if fruit instead, it won;t fill her up so much but would keep her going til lunchtime.

HTH and take care of yourslef, if you're not up to trying this yet, it won;t matter if you try again in a few weeks when you're feeling stronger.

I had several attempts at sorting out ds before we got it right.

Freyedknot - we did try going without her milk today. She was fine without it but still didnt eat lunch before or after her sleep. Though she ate loads after about 3pm. She ate the bread for the ducks and part of a snack bar. Then cake, toast at 4pm then at just after 5pm she had meatballs and rice, followed by banana.

Now I have no idea what to do tomorow. I hate getting it wrong. I guess she could have lunch at 11.30 then sleep. So much for trying to eat at the same time.

I think I shall just have to see how she wakes in the morning.

Thanks and night all.

Oh don't beat yourself up about it Beabea! There's no such thing as getting it wrong. Your DD ate loads yesterday, didn;t she, just more..when she wanted it, rather than when you wanted her to have it!!!

I think trying lunch at 11.30 is a good idea. Lots of my friends do that, and then their LO's sleep from around 12 - 12.30ish for a couple of hours.

Our routine is (and has been since around 13 months)

7.30 - 8ish - get up
8ish - breakfast
10.30 am small snack eg apple, rice cakes, organix fruit bar, drink of water
12 - lunch
1.15 pm - nap
3 pm (latest) get up, snack eg banana, drink of water
5 pm tea
6.30 pm bath
7 pm milk & bed

Hope you are feeling a bit better today. I had a m/c before I had ds and I still remember how awful I felt afterwards. So sorry for you

Today hasnt been so good sleep wise as we were out most of the day. 45mins and was so grumpy when she woke. Couldnt get her back off. She did eat lunch in 2 parts from 11.30 then slept then ate again at 12.45ish.

I now think she will wake early tomorow morning at 4.30 again. She woke at 5.30 this morning which was better and didnt ask for her milk till 6. We have easily cut out her mid morning milk and replace with drink and snack. It doesnt make her any more keen to have lunch before her nap though.

Im not wanting to beat myself up about it either but at the moment I am suffering from lots of broken sleep. DH snores too so that doesnt help either.

Do you stick to any of the changes you make for a few days or are you changing them daily if it doesnt work?

I would say you need to give things a few days, changing one thing at a time, to be able to tell if its going to work. Sorry if I have missed this, do you work F/T?, are some days drastically different to the last?

Overall I would say definately try to stay with the afternoon nap and then maybe bed an hour later.

I do different activities ib different days at different times. I also work 2 days a week.

I really want to stick to one routine but I dont want to stop going to groups and stuff. I truly wished I had stuckto the original routine. she has not had milk during the day for 2 days and now dont know if i should go back to it. she falls to sleep with a full tummy after and can sleep for much longer. she will not drop off in the afternoons at all. in any routine.

she is back at nursery on thurs and i ned to tell them the changes.