Could you look at our routine?

[Beabea]

Any guidance about what we can change to make DD sleep till a reasonable hour. She has just turned 1 and started nursery 2 weeks ago for 2 days per week.

Wakes anytime from 4.30am
Bottle 7oz anytime between 4.30-6am on average 5.30am
Breakfast at 8.30 as this is when nursery gives it. Cant do any earlier as they open at 8am.
Bottle 9oz about 10.30am- 11ish
Nap sometime between 10.45am 11.30am depending where we are and what we are doing. Sleeps between 45mins to 1.5 hrs.
Lunch around 1pm
At nursery has a small tea at about 4pm and then at home has a proper tea about 5pm. When at home all day tea is at 4.30pm
Bath about 5.30pm
Bottle about 6-6.30pm
bed soon after up till about 7pm normally

We introduced an early morning bottle at 6am as she started nursery and this is where things seemed to go wrong. She now wants it on waking first thing. I think if we can move the bottle till later she may sleep later. How do I do this? Day time nap also needs to be addressed. Sometimes she has 2 naps if she has a 45min sleep.Will only let her have half an hour or else she doesnt go to bed till 8-8.30pm .

Something needs to change. Some of the day works very well but other bits are not good at all.

Anyone able to point us in the right direction?

Thanks

I would shift the whole routine later so I was not getting up at 4.30, but that is just me, you may prefer an early start. I don't know, but I would think she is maybe waking up because she is hungry. I would let her have the 2 naps, as she is quite young to only have 1, and then she may sleep longer at night (sometimes they sleep less well when they are tired). That day she could have her tea a bit later, say 5.30 or 6, as she will be staying up later. Personally I would rather have ds stay up with us in the evening than get up at 4.30, but you may feel differently. Hopefully all the above might mean you would get a lie in in the morning.

Don't stress about it too much, though. At this age everything changes so fast, and as soon as you get them in a routine that works, something changes and it all goes pear shaped again!

I dont choose for her to wake at 4.30. I would prefer 7am. I also didnt choose for her to only have one nap a day. She stopped going to sleep in the afternoons.

So how do I do the shifting if she is waking this early and refusing to go back to sleep?

I would try one day either keeping her up, so she goes to bed later than 7pm (and hopefully sleeps in), or try to get her to have her morning nap earlier, then give her an afternoon nap as well that day. You may need to do it over a few days, e.g. get her to bed 15 mins later each day until you reach the time you want.

I am sorry if my first post sounded like I was saying it was your fault. I don't think that at all! I have always had problems with my ds's routine and still do, he is a terrible sleeper, so I am probably the worst person to give advice. Just didn't want your thread to disappear without any suggestions for you. It is always much easier to say what you would do in somebody else's shoes, isn't it?

I would say that she is over tired at bedtime due to her nap being earlier in the day and so she is getting her sleep in the earlier part of the night and so is wakeful at 4.30am.
Richard Ferber's "Solve your child's Sleep Problems" has an excellent section about early and late sleep phases.
Is your DD tired 12 hours after she woke up? I mean if you put her down at 5pm would she go to sleep? If so she obviously has an early sleep phase (from 5am to 5pm with the nap in the middle - late morning).
I find with DD that if she falls asleep before midday and gets her nap in between 11am and 1pm then she is too tired by 7pm ... I can keep her up but she will wake early in the morning.
If I were you I would try really gently to shift the day time nap to after lunch ... it may take a few days or a couple of weeks to do that. My DD goes to bed around 12.15/12.30pm and sleep from an 1.5 to 2 hrs. She gets up between 2pm and 2.30pm and can happily get through till 7pm ... she then sleeps till around 6/7am.
My DS was a nightmare sleeper and an early waker and I learned all of this from that book ...
HTH

Frannyf - no problem

Ghosty - so when does your daughter have lunch? My DD normally has her lunch at 1pm. Any earlier and she isnt hungry and wont eat.

Anyone else any ideas. DD had 2 hours sleep today as DH put her down at 10ish with her bottle extra early. She didnt drink all her milk though. Guess we cant have it all!

Anyone else?

I go with Ghosty on the early sleep bit.

I would also advise shifting the routine.
Give evening meal an hour later, bath an hour later and bed an hour later.
I only say this because at around that age we were experiencing the same problems. Ds waking between 4/5am.
It worked actually for us.
try it for a day or two, see how it goes.

I agree with Ghosty - that morning nap is probably causing her to wake early. If her body knows she can go back to sleep by 10, then she can probably manage 5 or 6 hours in the morning (by waking at 4.30/5) but what you want her to do is wake at 7am and then last 5 or 6 hours till 12.30/1 and then have a long nap. That's what you've got to aim for - I had this problem with ds when he was that age and it's quite hard to crack (as Ghosty said, you have to move it gradually) but it really does work once you crack it.

So when do your kids eat lunch?

It would also mean that DH and I eat much later too. DD cant always eat what we eat as she has a dairy intolerance and I dont want to eat cassaroles and veg all the time. She eats most stuff at nursery but not with us (thats another issue).

Mine are much older now but when they were around that age they would get lunch at 12 on the dot (and sometimes 11.30 if they were starving but then mine do have HUGE appetites) and they would be in bed by 12.30 and sleep till 2 or 2.30 and then a proper tea at 5ish.

I was still at work when my oldest was that age and they used to put all the kids down for a nap after lunch as well. We used to give dd milk before going to nursery and then she had breakfast when she got there (like your dd).

This is the trouble though. She has milk at 10.30am ish and so wont eat lunch till 1pm as she isnt hungry enough. Yet she wont go from 8.30 till 12 for lunch as I tried this and she fliped out coz she was too hungry.

This all seems worse than waking at 4.30am at the moment. I really dont want her still up at 8pm either. Im knackered and want some me time by then.

you don't need to keep her up till 8 - with lunch at 12 and an afternoon nap, she should still go down at 7.

Does she need a bottle at 10.30? (sorry, for the life of me, I can't remember how much milk they still have!). Can you not increase her breakfast and give her a bit less milk at 10.30 to make her hungrier for lunch?

She has upto 9oz mid morning. On the solids she prefers to eat little and often. I think she gets bored just sitting and eating.

We could try giving her lunch extra early but I dont want to keep changing her routine. However I guess we have to try different stuff to get it right.

What happens when you are out all day too? I am meeting a friend on Monday for lunch followed by soft play. Not sure this will work then.

Sorry for all the questions.

So, basically, you want her to sleep for 2 hours in the day but still be tired at bedtime, go to bed early so you can have a nice relaxing meal without a small person jumping all over you, yet sleep through until a civilised time in the morning without disturbing you?

Join the club.

Tell me when you manage it, my ds is 2.5 and we're still waiting...

:O Oh dear looks like I want it all doesnt it.

Good on you for trying! I've given up

I think 9oz mid morning is probably what's killing her appetite for lunch!

At that age, I used to split the day in two so either I met people in the morning after breakfast but before lunch (so from 9.30/10 till about 12) and then came home so she could nap or we went out in the morning, had lunch out and she slept in the car or buggy on the way home; or I met people in the afternoon after her nap (so from 2/2.30) and stayed out till tea or after tea and came back for bath/bed.

With a nap in the middle of the day you kind of get 2 distinct bits to your day automatically (morning/afternoon). I used to love that afternoon nap because I could put my feet up, have a cuppa and watch neighbours!

Well she had a good 1.5hr sleep today earlier than normal but we ran out of time to put her down again so she was dog tired by 6.45pm didnt want all her milk as it hadnt been that long since tea because we forgot the time. She was then too hungry to eat what I made so ended up eating soya yoghurt and a jar.

Started off well but then it tailed off. Try again tomorow

does she eat breakfast? that was one of my big challenges at that age, was getting them to eat a big enough breakfast so that they could survive on a small snack at 10.30 and make it to lunch.

Good luck - you sound very determined! I would recommend that book that Ghosty suggested (the Richard Ferber book). It completely sorted out dd for me and by the time ds came around, I'd almost got it sussed!

Foxinsocks - my friend doesnt live that near me so we are meeting half way. Most of my friends have such different routines unless our kids slept on the run as such we would never meet up.

DH and I also often go out for the day so she needs to sleep then too. She sleeps really well in her buggy. Except when we cant escape another screaming child whilst shopping!

My mum got me that book from a boot sale with tongue in cheek. We have tried it but DH doesnt like the CC method.

I had a look at the Secrets of the Baby whisperer for toddlers tonight from the library so we may try that with a bit more determination.