newborn sleep nightmare, officially desperate

[ExistentialistCat]

2 week-old DD2 just won't settle in her crib at night at all. She'll sleep in her moses basket during the day quite happily, though. I've tried all the usual tricks (warming the mattress, swaddling, making a little nest out of a rolled-up blanket etc etc etc). We end up co-sleeping out of necessity but I don't want to, I don't get any sleep like that, and I'm not sure it's safe because DH and I are so extremely dopey now.

I'm averaging 2 hours sleep a night (not all in one chunk) and I just don't know how I can continue like this. I also have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's so unfair on her that I'm a permanently bf-ing zombie during the day.

Does all this settle on its own at the magic 6 week mark or is there something we could do to encourage DD2 to sleep in her crib? How do I survive the next 4 weeks? How much of an influence might bf-ing have, and could a night time bottle of formula help (I ff DD1 and don't remember the sleep issues being quite this bad in the early weeks)?

Sorry you're feeling fed up Cat, no advice here with regards a routine, i'm struggling and DS is my only DC so can just concentrate on him.

Had a better night here last night, i went for a nap at 8pm and warned dp that ds was probably due a feed in about half an hour so come and get me asap. I heard DS wake up and cry but lo and behold dp managed to get him on the bottle. (maybe because i was nowhere near whereas other attempts i'll admit i've kind of hovered). DS didnt take much but enough that i got 2 whole hours sleep before his next feed.

Ds the managed a 3 hour stretch which has been unheard of for over a week now.

Hope everyone elses nights have been better!!

cat, i have no idea how to make things work with a sleep fighting second child, hence the over-reliance on the sling. she won't even feed to sleep . at least my elder dd is 3.8, so can be parked in front of cbeebies while i trot dd2 around the house. how you manage a younger one i have no idea.

this is probably anathema to most, but i keep thinking that i'll just get through each day until 6mo, when i can do controlled crying. dd1 responded well to cc at 6mo. obviously i would prefer not to do cc, but it saved my job and my sanity last time around.

when i wake in the morning, i congratulate myself that everyone made it through the previous day clean and well-fed, before allowing myself to despair about the day ahead. it helps. only a tiny bit, but it helps.

Ah, Charlotte, I know just what you mean about CC! It worked a treat with DD1 (and v little actual crying) and I comfort myself by counting down the weeks until I can use it with DD2! That makes me sound terribly cruel but there we are. I've just spent an hour supposedly feeding DD2 to sleep. I say supposedly because it was more shoving the nipple towards her while she flailed and writhed and protested. And this is supposed to be the simple solution!

If you've got through the day fed and clean, then well done. We've had a burst water pipe, so aren't very clean, and I've been stuffing myself with chocolate to cope with the stress of keeping the DCs entertained at home all day, so I'm not sure that counts as well fed!!

I do appreciate the sympathy re having such a young 'older' child. Whenever people tell me to encourage the toddler to play quietly on her own/help with the housework/watch telly (not interested)/practice her algebra while I tend to the baby, I just want to wail!

Cbeebies is our friend! Agree that it must be harder for you with a young toddler. Dd1 is fairly self sufficient. The real joy is trying to wipe her bum when feeding or dd2 in the sling!

Oh just seen she's not interested in tv

Hello all. We've had an OK few days, slightly odd though. DS was nuts for about 3 days last week. Classic growth spurt behaviour - constant feeding, sleep fighting, frequent waking. Then on Friday he suddenly seemed to calm down a bit. Put him to bed at 9pm and DH sent me to bed at 10pm, figuring I'd get an hour if I was lucky. Next thing I know DH is whispering to me that it's 3.30 am and DS is still asleep! My boobs felt like they were about to explode so I ended up waking him (bonkers I know, but this is the child that hasn't slept more than 3hrs in a row for the last month). He went straight back to bed after the feed and slept until 7am! Mad. The next night was similar - he slept from 7 to 7, only waking up once. Then I read that it's common for a baby to sleep through for 2-3 nights after a big growth spurt, then they go back to how they were . The last couple of nights have been ok, but you can tell he's graduallyvgoing back to normal. Oh well. It did kind of weird us out, anyway ...

Daytime naps continue to be a power struggle. He took an hour to settle for a morning nap today (though slept for two hours when finally went down - unheard of these days) and I had to push the pram round in the snow for two hours this afternoon to get him to sleep (only got 40 minutes, having taken over an hour to fall asleep). He woke up at 4pm so I decided not to try for a third nap and push ahead for the 7pm bedtime. I couldn't face another hour of wrestling him to sleep, tbh. As a result he was really overtired by the time DH got home, and screamed the place down when DH tried to put him to bed. Then DH told me off for not keeping a lid on DS's tiredness! I was horribly upset by this - I'd basically spent all day trying to get DS to take his naps, including walking around aimlessly in the frigging snow for two hours. My life is spent trying to get this kid to sleep so he won't get screamy and it is soul-destroying much of the time. DH is usually the most amazing husband and dad, so this kind of remark is unusual for him, and he apologised loads afterwards, but I still feel a bit stung by it now :( so I can really sympathise, iwas. In five years together we barely exchanged a cross word, but since DS was born we've had three or four ructions like this due to DS's sleep being so shit.

Just thought I'd pop in to wish all other sleep warriors a Merry Christmas! Here's hoping that our various sleep battles won't stop us enjoying the festivities. Or if that seems ridiculously optimistic, here's hoping that we'll all survive the next week or two in one piece!

Same to you, EC! Here's hoping for some silent nights in all our houses ...

Morning y'all!

Well my flukey 9-4 sleeps have stopped. Last two nights I've been woken at 12.45am and again at around 4am. Not sure why it's changed!?

Today we were out and about in the car so he slept loads. Not sure if that has any bearing.

We all went to bed at 9.45 last night as seems daft to keep falling asleep on sofa and getting crap quality sleep.

Must say that the waking up at just before one is taking it's toll. Am totally wasted and it's only been two nights.

I must admit that when he cries, eg waking up, or grumbles I leave him awhile to see if he'll settle himself, sometimes he does other times not.

I find that everyone I talk to is obsessed with asking if I am sleeping and is he in a routine!!!!!!!

oh count, it's so understandable that the lack of sleep makes rows more inevitable.

I have made DH promise not to divorce me in the first 6 months . seriously though, i think acknowledging in the calm light of day that we are both at the end of our tethers helps.

silver, I am currently turning in between 8-9pm as well. I feed DD2, chuck her at DH, and go up to watch a bit of telly in bed, normally drifting off quite early. There's no way I'd survive if I didn't, as if DD2 does have a long stretch (by which I mean 4 hours ) it's in the first part of the night. she wakes 2-3hourly at best in the second half of the night, often more.

DD2 has finally succumbed and caught DD1's cold, so was up and snuffling from 3-6am. she is now sleeping on her front in my bed, from where I am MNing. I think I am too nervous to put her down on her front at night, when I can't watch her, but it really seems to make a difference, especially with the cold. Perhaps when she's bigger and can roll a bit....

Anyway, Merry Christmas to you all! Here's hoping Father Christmas brings some magic sleep dust, or failing that, plenty of Bombay Sapphire and Green and Blacks.

silv I am also getting asked and it's really annoying, because when I'm not asked, I'm actually really happy with how he's sleeping now, it's sooo much better than it was. But I seem to get asked by people with younger babies than mine who are doing 5 hour stretches, so are expecting him to be sleeping through. then it makes me feel shit that he rarely even does a 4 hour stretch.

Stupid really as like I say, I'm feeling fine, not that tired as he's so easy to put down after feeding I'm getting much better sleep even if I am waking every 2 hours!

Anyone else try & put their babies down and when they open their eye turn away thinking 'don't look th in the eye, don't look them in the eye...' as if by turning your head away they will magically go to sleep!

LOL - totally!
DH and I fight over who gets to have the side of the bed furthest from the moses basket - "she keeps looking at me"

lol yes!!! but sometimes it works though. When he catches my eye is usually when he starts to grin at me and wake up more.

4th totally!!!!!

cos every child is very different and those that are young and sleeping thru are rare. The questions are nearly as bad as being asked when preggers and close
to EDD "any news?" Funny enough I've not heard from half those people since MBs birth.

We don't swaddle during the day and he does sleep tho we don't induce naps as such. He gets put in his bouncer and his music gets put on. Aside from that we don't do anything else. When he gets to three months I'll put him upstairs with the monitors on for his naps and see how that goes. Knowing my luck probably not very well!!!

When I fetch him out of his Moses in the night when he's been crying as soon as I unswaddle him he grins and then does a huge stretch!!!!!

I like to think they'll get their commupance at the 4 month sleep regression where as we will (hopefully!) barely notice it as not sure how much more often he could actually be awake in the night

True ! Steady wins the race and all that !

And so the 1am alarm calls continue.

Anyone else that swaddles: Ds has started to fight it when first put down. Lots of thrashing and angry grunts. Anyone else having this? What do you do ignore? Leave arms out? Move on to sleeping bags? He is sleeping well but eg: now (as in this minute) instead of snuggling back down to sleep he is trying to move his arms and making frustrated noises. Ackshalleee that's a lie. He has just this minute stopped and has settled himself. WWYD? Leave him to sort himself out? Not sure me rocking him to sleep is a good routine to get into.

Hope you all managed to get extra kips in this festive period. I didn't. Mainly cos of rushing round.

Silver, dd2 looks like she's fighting the swaddle. However I did unswaddle her a couple of times and she still grunts and thrashes, so i think that's just her overtired behaviour. We still have to rock her to sleep even with the swaddle .

I am offering No Comment on this weekend's night wakings. And DH is working 9pm-7am this week, so no help with resettled after feeds....

Hope you all had a lovely, restful Christmas .

Hello,

I wonder if I might join your thread? I have read a couple of the pages and it seems like DS (10 weeks) & I might fit right in?

For the first few weeks he only really slept on DH at night, and me in the day. He loved the sling, but now seems to find it a bit restrictive (BIG baby).

For the next few weeks we really struggled with a 'toxic' evening feed at about 9, 10 or 11pm with loads of screaming and back arching for a couple of hours, before falling asleep exhausted around midnight or 1.

Recently we've been trying an evening bath, feed in bed and down into the cot, which is set up next to the bed with the side down. This seems to be working better as the feed is less unpleasant, and usually only takes an hour.

At the moment we have 3 problems:

1. If I start the bath & feed at 7 pm, he might be asleep by 9pm. Then I want to put the light out & go to sleep, which means I have my supper before the bath. Which means over 12 hours without food , I can cope but DH wakes up ravenous at 3am and can't go back to sleep!

1. DS has slept for 3-4 hours at a stretch, but only 5 times since being born. Most of the time it is 1 1/2 - 2 hours. This is killing me.

1. I find sleeping with a light on or noise from the radio etc almost impossible, so sleeping in the day is hard and sleeping when DH is reading/checking email on his phone/listening to the radio is also tricky.

I don't know about the rest of you but the lack of sleep / disjointed sleep has completely buggered my mood, and I find myself weepy, guilty, angry and utterly despairing at times. On Christmas morning I contemplated leaving, I thought they would be better off without me. I hate feeling like that.

Feeling better today, but still low. Hope the rest of you are feeling better.

Please can I join your thread everyone?

I have a 10 week old DS (my second child) with (silent) reflux, which tends to totally bugger up sleep. My first DD was an appaling sleeper, also with reflux, who like others on here only really improved when the reflux abated a bit around 7 months and (like others on here have said) we could do sleep training.

My 10 week old DS doesn't sleep in the day unless in moving pram (no pauses at that crucial transition point between deep and light sleep, mummy, thanks). Or being paced around with the dummy firmly in his mouth in a sling in a darkened room. If I didn't intervene and enforce sleep, he would be awake for around 7 hours, before taking maybe a 30 minute nap out of sheer exhaustion. If I don't enforce naps, he screams even more than normal. It's so hard as his preferred methods of going to sleep are totally toddler-incompatible.

He finally conks out for the day at around 1130 pm, usually waking once for a feed (he is FF) + an hour and a half of resettling in the night, up for the day around 7.30. He is chronically, chronically overtired.

The crowning glory is that I have got PND, one of the main symptoms for me is,.... yep, you guessed it, insomnia! So even when he does drop off at night (and I know I am really lucky to have a baby who does at least one 4 hour stretch)I can't. Lovely.

Well, sorry to go on, that's enough about me: antidote, could your DH take pack-up sarnies to bed every night so that if he wakes from hunger he can refuel quickly and then hopefully drop back off? that's what I used to do when I was still BF and had the same problem.

re sleeping in the day, have you tried wax earplugs? You have to really jam them in your ears (and of course have someone else who can mind your baby should they wake up). I find they block out all noise very effectively. I actually use them at night too but even through them always, always hear my DS wake when he is making only the faintest rustle.

you say not sleeping has buggered your mood - I can't think of anything helpful at all to say here really, just that I don't think anyone should underestimate the effects of sleep deprivation on mood. With my first DD I had hallucinations because her sleep (and mine) was so poor. Everything you describe I have also felt - despair, anger, guilt, weepiness.

What you said about thinking about leaving struck a parrticular chord. I also have felt like this recently, when I was at my absolute lowest and I still fantasise about it now sometimes. DOn't feel like you're on your own thinking this way - you're not. With me it was a symptom of both sleep deprivation and PND - am not saying you have the same but just a plea that if your mood continues to be very low, please don't do as I did and let things reach crisis point before seeking help of some kind. Hope you don't mind me saying that.

Anyway, I hope all our babies decide that 2011 is the year they will sleep like tops.

narmada thanks for the words of advice about mood. Luckily dh is a psychiatrist so he is very very good at spotting my mood state and is usually able to intervene, as long as he is awake or not at work. I think I scared him a bit when I talked about leaving, luckily we slept a bit better last night.

I might bring a snack to bed for him as you suggest, amazing not to have thought of something so obvious.

I totally know what you mean about male in the peak and not stopping moving.

Have you got a birthing ball? We found bouncing on that was as effective as the sling and less tiring.

Hope you get some rest tonight

hola chicas - welcome. sorry you find yourselves here though, iyswim.

ha! you def don't need any advice on mood from sundry strangers like me, then, antidote! glad you slept better last night. scuse one-handed-baby-on-lap-typing.