newborn sleep nightmare, officially desperate

[ExistentialistCat]

2 week-old DD2 just won't settle in her crib at night at all. She'll sleep in her moses basket during the day quite happily, though. I've tried all the usual tricks (warming the mattress, swaddling, making a little nest out of a rolled-up blanket etc etc etc). We end up co-sleeping out of necessity but I don't want to, I don't get any sleep like that, and I'm not sure it's safe because DH and I are so extremely dopey now.

I'm averaging 2 hours sleep a night (not all in one chunk) and I just don't know how I can continue like this. I also have a 15 month-old DD1 and it's so unfair on her that I'm a permanently bf-ing zombie during the day.

Does all this settle on its own at the magic 6 week mark or is there something we could do to encourage DD2 to sleep in her crib? How do I survive the next 4 weeks? How much of an influence might bf-ing have, and could a night time bottle of formula help (I ff DD1 and don't remember the sleep issues being quite this bad in the early weeks)?

Woohoo!!' 8pm-11.30pm then 12.30am-5.45am! And I agree silversky, it's all about the swaddling. Miraculous! Second night in a week he's done a long stretch - hope it's not a fluke ...

we had a good night too, 10 - 2.30, then again at 5am!! in his basket all night for the first tme ever as well. only downside? could I sleep?? could I buggery :(

Yay, congrats Cosmosis! I was full of the joys of spring this morning until DH pointed out I'd only had 4.5hrs sleep. Felt tired all of a sudden ...

Last night he slept 11pm til 3.30am. He would have slept longer but his explosive butt woke me up! I was in two minds whether to wake him or wait for him to wake me. WWYD?

After I changed and fed him - he only ate for 20mins I reswaddled him and he went straight back down with no grumbles. I also put the white noise on as back up. We woke up again at around 7.15am.

My cough kicked off around 5 and I was virtually choking! Which woke all of us up but everyone except me managed to drift back off easily.

SO all in another successful night.

He hasn't slept much this am, he is fighting it but I hope he drops off soon.

Cos & CountBaps so pleased that sleep is featuring in your household. I find DS is less stressy in the day if he has slept better in the night.

All I want for Christmas is a good night's sleep!!

glad some good nights are being had
i did not have a good one - not sure how many wakes or when as i am trying to be a bit Zen and not look at the clock.
i did have strong words with dh though. twice she woke in the evening due to him not being arsed to settle her properly - if you hold her through the 1st sleep cycle in the evenings she'll normally do 8-11 and 12-2 or 3. once i could have overlooked - we've all been there - but i was annoyed the 2nd time. she was then cranky and overtired and wanting to comfort suck at the boob for most of the rest of the night.

Ah well, it wasn't repeated. Went down fine and did till 11 in his basket, then feed. We then spent from 11-30 till 1 trying to get him back in there. Fast asleep in arms, put down, eyes wide open.

Gave up in the end, he slept in the bed again, but didn't sleep that well even then.

I have noticed the same thing Charlotte, if you get the first putting down right, mostly it means the rest of the night goes ok. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who has one that sometimes needs to comfort suck all night!

Hello everyone!

I've been absent because I've been feeling a bit down about all things sleep-related. Yes, too down even to post on a sleep nightmare thread!

I contacted a private sleep clinic to ask for advice on creating good sleep habits early on and was told to pat DD2 to sleep, not feed or wear her, no matter how much she cries or how long it takes. I'm afraid I've chucked their fees down the drain as I'm not prepared to do that yet (she's 12 weeks old), and besides it's utterly impractical with a toddler DD1 around as well.

BUT things have been much better since we bought a bedside cot - one of those where one side comes off completely so it acts as an extension for your bed (I was sick of having DD2 in our bed and not being able to move all night!). I now lie in it with DD2 in the evenings and feed her to sleep for about half an hour, then roll away. I've had two evenings of time to myself before bedtime!! And in the night she settles pretty quickly if I just roll over to her and shove a nipple in her mouth.

I didn't want to co-sleep or feed to sleep but it's saving our sanity for now.

cat, i feel the same about co-sleeping and feeding to sleep. i am soooo not an attachment parent, but have reluctantly accepted that dd2 is an attachment baby...

oh ffs sake what shit advice, patting does fuck all ime.

Oh, you've really cheered me up, Charlotte (fab name!) and Cosmosis!

Love the idea of having an attachment baby but not feeling like an attachment parent. That's exactly how I feel. I was reading Dr Sears' book to make me feel better but it just made me even more cross because he tends towards ridiculous hyperbole. All this stuff about AP babies being cleverer, more empathic, better looking and more likely to go to heaven (ok might have made some of that up) - it's just daft. Perhaps we need a support thread for reluctant APers...

I did do one evening of patting DD2 and it took 2 hours before she fell asleep! Sleep clinic and HV both advised doing this for naps as well. And what exactly should I do with 17 month-old DD1 while I spend 2 hours at each nap time patting away until my arm falls off?!

My parents came to stay at the weekend. My dad kept taking DD2 off me, putting her in the moses basket and shutting her away in DH's study, telling me how marvellously quickly she'd settled while I listened in disbelief as she howled. Needless to say, I didn't keep this up and am seriously questioning whether I want my parents to look after DDs for any length of time!

Oh Cat, I have ishoos with parental opinions as well - my dad came to stay a few weeks ago and was telling me all about leaving me to cio as a baby. yeah thanks. oh and a "funny" story about his friend who used to physically restrain his wife from going to their crying baby at night.

Anyhow, I have to report a miracle. I put him down, thinking he was asleep. He opened his eyes. I was poised to pick him up, but he didn't start crying, so I started stroking his nose. 20 minutes later, he's asleep.

LOl at attachment baby! I knew I was going to be on the verge of AP, always planned to buy a sling, but never planned to co-sleep, am very reluctantly doing that.

Hi ladies! Good to hear from you cat, was wondering how you were getting on. Agree with cosmosis that patting does shit-all. Where exactly are you supposed to pat them, anyway? With DS, patting to sleep would be like trying to break a boulder with a pin.

What brand of bedside cot have you got? we've been looking at those too. I totally agree that the baby decides what type of parent you're going to be. DS is totally an attachment baby too. I always thought I'd be a Gina Fordy type mum but I'm much more in the direction of AP out of necessity. On the other hand my nct buddy with the self-settling baby who's fallen into a GF routine of his own accord, is quite a hippyish, earth-mother personality in other respects. I was the only mum in our group who didn't make it out for our group xmas meal last week because I didn't feel I could leave DS.

We're in 12-week growth spurt hell at the moment. Mad feeding frenzies, insomnia, sleep fighting, random screaming. At least I'm used to it now and am not so perturbed by it. At least he still went down for 3hrs this evening. Let's see what the night brings ...

Oh, there's a 12-week growth spurt? That could explain a lot!!

I've just woken up with that horrble sinking feeling that seems to accompany the start of my day quite often at the moment. Wondering how to get through another day of toddler and baby juggling, and what the point of it all is anyway. Bit glum.

Count, our cot is a Cosatto Close to Me one - there happened to be one in the local second hand baby shop, which was apiece of luck!

I always knew I'd tend towards AP but I wasn't expecting to have to do it so completely. I also was the only one out of our NCT group to miss last weel's Christmas dinner. I know it's not forever etc etc but it's hard to miss out on all semblance of a life of my own.

The story of your dad's friend made me very sad, Cosmo, because that's what my dad did with my mum. Put me in another room and more or less forced her to stay in the sitting room with the music turned up. And they wonder why I find it hard to ask for help and support as an adult.

Sorry, still a bit down as you can tell.

I also find it hard to ask for support cat. My stepmother suggested turing the music up when he cried too :(

Anyhow, reasonable night, he spent all night in his basket which is good, and managed to settle him back in after feeds without too much trouble.

Me agsin.

Have been keeping an eye on this thread with interest and picking up some tips (miracle blanket and white noise app seem very very useful)

NOt really a sleep related post from me, rather just a "im feelin crap" post and i think its largely due to lack of sleep.

I'm just feelin completely overwhelmed by it all at the moment. BF'ing every 2 hours so it feels like all im doing is BF'ing and then trying to persuade a screaming DS to have a nap as otherwise his fussy evenings become even worse. Dont feel confident enough to leave DS with DP and let him do the last feed in the evning due to him loosing his temper the other night, Im on eggshells everytime DS cries with DP as i dont want him to get wound up again. (not DP's fault he's been fab with DS since loosing his temper i just cant relax)

Everyone i talk to about lack of sleep just says "try a bottle", like its going to be some miracle cure for DS wanting to feed so often; and suggests my milk isnt enough for him (he's put on over just 4lbs in 5 weeks and is maintaining the 98th percentile) I even asked the community nurse for some advice today re feeding and when DS would be more responsive to some form of routine and all she said was "theres a gina ford book but its quite strict" yeah thanks for that!!

I think im just feeling sorry for myself as i had a bad night with DS, and he's been a bit of a pain in the bottom today as well. Must remember he's still very young................... this too shall pass (right?)

That is my mantra grumpybum. repeated through gritted teeth at 3am sorry you're feeling crappy, hope tomorrow is a better day.

Hi all, how's it going?

Crap here. Dd2 isn't going down in the evenings till 12/1am. Then waking at 6. I know that's not so bad but I struggle to get offto sleep after that or have to be up for dd1 so getting about 6 hours sleep & no evening. Have no idea how to get her to go down in the evening.

We had daytime naps in her hammock for about a week them it went tits up. If she does have a morning nap the day gets progressively worse. Dh is being a PITA saying maybe she doesn't need to sleep. Or yesterday I was dying my hair and asked him to try & resettle her after she'd woken after 20 mins when I'd bounced her to sleep for 20 mins. Two minutes later he said 'shall I just get her up' .

We've also been arguing as he has been telling me off for being so negative & saying he's sick of seeing me despairing. Last night his parting words were 'it's got to stop. We've got to do something about this' . Because, y'know, I've tried nothing in my desperation to get her to sleep.

It's actually very unlike him to be such a twat and today he has realised and announced this morning I am to do nothing all day except nice things and feeding the baby! They like to play thr hero don't they?

This last week has been dreadful. DS waking every 1.5 hrs at night without fail. Really dont know what to do. :(

god it's crap isn't it? dd2 was also up every 90mins last night. she is sleeping in the sling at the moment.

She is crying a lot in the evenings because I take her out of the sling to give my back a break. She is 13lb, and by the end of the day my back is buggered, so i sit with her, rocking her in my arms. She screams. she just wants to be trotted round day and night .

DH has also tried giving expressed milk in a bottle. she has refused point blank on 3 occasions, which makes me feel very closed-in, as if this will be my existence for many, many months now.

DH has been on lates all weekend, which makes things seem worse. Although lovely MIL and FIL came round this afternoon. FIL played with DD1 while MIL did the washing up. I wish they lived next door!

oh, and MIL let slip that DH was a screamy baby who woke all night, and wouldn't take a bottle until he was 9mo. So I am blaming him for passing on some very suspect genetic material .

Yeah my DS wont take a bottle either. We tried the other night to do his last feed with a bottle but he point blank refused to take it then proceeded to have a feed from me. Was so unbelievably (spelling?) gutted and know exactly how you feel charlotte about feeling closed in. How are we ever supposed to go anywhere sans baby????

All female members of my family are constantly making me feel like crap for bf'ing as well, they all ff and continue to suggest the reason ds is awake so often is due to my milk not being enough for him

Gahhhhhhhhhhhhh

Same here on the bottle thing, feeling really desperate and it is causing issues between me and DH. Just feel that every decision revolves around her feeding, when I go to bed, when I wake up, when I can go out. DH is fed up with me being miserable and keeps telling me off for being so negative.

Tried 3 different bottles so far. I have a whole other thread on it here if any of the advice is helpful.

Really sympathise on the 90 minute wake ups, you must be knackered. Makes everything seem really bleak and never ending doesn't it?

We also having 90 min wake ups a lot here. He does 8-11 or 11.30, then till 2, and then 90 mins after that. I have realised though that he falls asleep after one side on the 2am wakeup, and then at all others after that, so think he's actually not getting enough to keep him asleep (a couple of weeks ago he was doing much better and was taking both sides) so tonight I am going to wake him up and make him take the other side in the hope that it will mean longer sleep.

I realised this mornign that I can't actually remember when I last had a full nights sleep, must have been June, as I had shocking late pg insomnia and was up 2-5 every night.

Urgh I had awful pg insomnia too. I actually had sleeping tablets twice and was on reduced hours at work so like you I can't remember the last time I had a full nights sleep.

Dd2 slept 8-10.30 last night which is unusual. Great, I thought, maybe this is a new pattern. Except she then woke up at 2 for half an hour, then 5.30-7 then finally at 8. I know it's not as bad as some of you, but she is completely regressing. To think at one point she was sleeping 7.5 hours...

Wiseman, Cosmosis, GrumpyBum and Charlotte - I could have written any one of your posts! I've been feeling so miserable about being the only one who can get DD2 off to sleep at night (the feeding to sleep is taking over an hour) and about the daytime nap situation. Even the magic sling is losing its magic, and without it I am well and truly buggered. Car seat, basket, pram, anyone's arms - all refused point blank. Grrr.

I'm just so fed up of having to be the grown-up all the time. I just want to join in the whingeing and misery because I'm feeling overwhelmed and helpless TOO. Bah.

I just don't see how you're supposed to develop anything resembling a nap and bedtime schedule when there's a crazy active 17 month-old around. How? Please tell me, how?