HELP! 9 month old getting worse not better.

[AlCrowley]

DD has always been a terrible sleeper. I joked before she was born that I was due a non-sleeping baby this time after DS who slept through from 8 weeks and it really has come true.

After months of struggle, we'd finally gotten to the point where she was finally having 1 nap in the day then having a BF at 7pm and going to bed and waking at 1.30-ish for a feed then sleeping till 5.30-ish for a feed and being wide awake from then until her nap. We weaned at 5 months on the advice of the HV because she wasn't napping during the day at all! She now eats really well.

Again on the HV's advice, 4 days ago, I added a FF at bedtime along with her BF. She's never taken a bottle - just screams if you put one in her mouth - so we've been giving "bedtime milk" from a tippy cup. She maybe takes an ounce or two before she cries for boob at which point I BF her to sleep as normal. But since then, her sleep has gotten even worse. We now have the 7pm feed, an 11pm feed, then the 1am feed and an extra 3am feed before the 5.30 wake up. The only bonus is that her nap has extended to more like 90 mins most days.

So I'm giving up on the HV and asking MN - what do I do now? Do I ditch the FF or should I give it a few more days to see if she settles? Is there anything else i can do to encourage her to sleep through - or at least go back to just 2 wakes? DH, DS and I are all desperate for a full nights sleep now

Any advice would be appreciated

At this stage both mine still had a dream feed at 11pm still as well. They were also both teething horribly and if they woke at other times I'd lather their gums with bonjela and leave again. Most of the time they went back to sleep after a quick shout, in your case if you do the bonjela and then a bottle she'll hopefully stay asleep longer if it is teeth.

My 2 slept worse when they were overtired, I always thought they'd be so tired they'd be sparko before having kids but they actually woke more if over tired. I'd be tempted to go and see a child sleep specialist. This book is good it's very comprehensive and thorough and may help you a lot. I still refer to it with my 2 even now.

Do you mean bonjela before the feed at 7pm? Will give that a go. She's definitely got teeth on the way, they might be breaking through now. She definitely wants more BF when she wakes. If DH goes in she just screams. If I go in, she screams and tries to get to the boob. I've troed resisting but I only manage an hour and then I give in

The overtired thing is why I was desperate to get her to nap in the day. We seem to have cracked the morning nap and I've been putting her down in the afternoon too but she only has about 20 minutes.

I don't mind the midnight snack feed, I could cope if we went back to just that one - I just really need her to ditch the 2 new ones!

Book ordered - thank you

Funnily enough I didn't give the bonjela at 7pm at they slept at that point fine and it only lasts 3 hours before wearing off. I used it later in the night if they woke.

Give her the teething gel tonight when she wakes and see if that helps. It's a comfort thing I think wanting the feeds, especially if it is what she has always used to comfort herself back to sleep. Try using it before a nap as well tomorrow and see if she sleeps longer.

I do think that book is well worth buying, as you do need some advice from someone more qualified than me. That author has over 30 years experience of working with children and sleep disorders.

x posted

Btw if the teeth are really painful there's no shame in some calpol

Will do. I did consider digging out a dummy too - we bought some but she never wanted them - just in case the sucking would be enough to get her back to sleep.

May just annoy her more though. She knows what she wants and it's boob :)

I agree, she'd get cross if you produced one. Lots of mums on here have no problem with feeds over night still at this stage and beyond. By now I personally tried to not feed them after 11pm and just offer bonjela (unless very poorly). I put up with a few shouts instead However I am a mean mummy I figured a few hard nights was worth it in the long run if everyone started to sleep better in the longer term.

It's your child though and do whatever feels right for you. You may find once the teeth are through, she'll be fine again.

Just peeked at your pictures. Your cakes are amazing! I love making cakes but yours are awesome!

I've tried reisiting but she really can scream when she's not getting what she wants and she can keep it up for ages. I usually cave after an hour!

Off to bed now as I know I'll be up again soon. Thank you very much for your help. I will report back in the morning.

Fingers crossed those teeth hurry up and she goes back to normal soon :)

Missed the comment about cakes last night - Thank you

For the past couple of years the cake itself has been a costco one. I just couldn't make a cake that size in my oven and definitly not that cheap! The decorating is the fun bit anyway

Last night went OK. We got an extra hour ebtween betime and the first wake up at 12.30 then she came in with us for a feed and I fell asleep to be woken up by her relatching herself on around 3am. I put her back in her bed and she slept till 6am.

She's had 2 proper naps today (45mins this morning and another hour and a half this afternoon) and has eaten loads!! I don't generally give her pre-made stuff but our freezer has bust so I had no home-made and was shocked when she ate a whole pot of Organix bologanise with pasta and a whole pot of banana porrige!! She had a bath then 50ml of bedtime milk and a breastfeed so she should definitely have enough in her tummy to keep her going.

I even managed to put her down sleepy but awake and left her to fall asleep on her own which hardly ever happens.

Fingers crossed the mixture of better naps, lots of food and self settling will mean a better night's sleep for all - but I'm not counting on it. I can't wait for that book to arrive as I can't think what else we could do!

Agree with the HSHHC book recommendation. I'd bet that she's overtired due to not enough daytime sleep. Usual symptoms are early waking and frequent night waking. There are ideas from HSHHC on the 'stuck in a neverending sleep regression' thread if you want to have a preview.

I think the book is not very well-written and badly organised, although I would definitely recommend his approach to nap scheduling - although not his 'let them scream' method of sleep training!

I'd ignore the chapter about colic & temperament, and start at the 5-12 months chapter, then go back and read the 'sleep problems & solutions' chapter next.

There is a 9 month sleep regression too which is likely complicating matters: see here, here and here.

I have no qualms about giving DD teething powder and Calprofen (anti inflammatory apparently better for teething than calpol paracetamol) at bedtime, and then again when she wakes at night if sufficient time has elapsed. Seems to work and she has popped her first teeth recently.

How often does she feed during the day? Do you think she needs the night feeds or is it habitual? You could try offering water - or even getting DH to do it so you are not there teasing her with your boobs!!! Obv only if you don't feel she actually needs the milk at that time. It seems excessive to me that she is feeding roughly every 2 hours overnight.

Glad things went better last night

Thanks AngelDog, those links were really helpful. interetsing to hear that the early waking and night waking are symptoms of not enough daytime naps - I was thinking that they might be a culprit along with the realiance on feeding to sleep. I'm looking forward to the book arriving so I can check out the chapters you've mentioned. Will have a look at the threadt too in the meantime.

gingerkirsty - I'm still demand feeding DD but we seem to have fallen into a pattern. She feeds as soon as she wakes (anywhere between 5am and 6am) then we have breakfast around 7-8am. She cries for a feed again somewhere bwteeen 8.30 and 9.30 and will then fall asleep for her morning nap (that's been about 90 mins for a while but was shorter today) Lunch is at 12 and then she usually cries for another feed around 2-3pm although occasionally, she'll leave it till more like 4pm. Dinner is at 5pm then she has a bath and another feed at 7pm before bed. So that's 4 feeds. The bedtime feed has been half bedtime milk and half BF for 5 nights now but it was starting the formula which seemed to have further messed up the sleep.

If I try feeding her any more often during the day, she'll suckle for 2 or 3 mins then get upset and want to get off which reassures me that she's not hungry between feeds.

The 11pm feed is the biggy overnight and she often seems genuinely hungry and desperate for the boob. The others I would say are less frantic and she seems to be enjoying the comfort rather than the milk I would say. Even the 5/6am feed seems a little half hearted most mornings.

We've tried DH settling her in the night but she seems to get even more distressed. She wants me (she has always been a very clingy baby) and then when she has me, she smells the milk and then wants a feed too. She has been known to stop screaming the second she gets into my arms and fall asleep just from me holding her when she's been beside herself with DH. He adores her bless him but she really is a Mummy's girl. We're trying really hard to rectify it and DH holds her and plays with her a lot during the day and she is much better now, even gets excited when he gets home from work but when she's tired, it has to be Mummy.

She's not keen on the cup so I don't know how she'd react to water but I'm willing to try it... Thanks for the suggestion.

Thanks T&CP. Fingers crossed for tonight? :)

Yeah definitely, although you're probably in bed by now They'll be good and bad nights but you do sound like you're doing brilliantly with everything to be honest

I expect I will get flamed for this but here goes...

Until recently 6mo DD was waking between 2 and 6 times per night. She was feeding every 2.5-3hrs per day on demand. I was getting desperate and sheer exhaustion had caused me to make some stupid mistakes with her so something had to change.

I used the Baby Whisperer and put her on 4 hourly feeds - 7am,11am,3pm,7pm,11pm (dream feed) 3am. I was nervous of doing it because I thought it would be awful but in the end I decided 'JFDI' (Just F'ing Do It!) and actually it was completely fine. She immediately started waking once at night, right on schedule around 3am. Over time the night feed started getting later and later so I was confident she was working her way towards dropping it.

Since then she has popped her first 2 teeth so I was feeding her more often to help her with that, so have just gone back onto a 4 hr schedule with her and am hoping we will continue in the same vein.

Only you will know whether that's right for your baby but I knew that my DD only feeds for about 5 mins a time so would have no problem with taking more milk less often IYSWIM.

I am also giving her Hipp Organic good night milk at her dream feed which I think is helpful and may well be why she was extending her night feed to a later time. Will your DD take a bottle when asleep? If you've not tried I wonder if it's worth a go - your DH could try it before she wakes for her 11pm feed.

You might hate everything I've suggested but your situation sounds quite similar to where we were a while back and it worked for us.

Second the Baby Whisperer, saved my sanity at times, and my dd2 was very much like this.

It's OK Ginger. It's Gina Ford that mumsnetters REALLY dislike PUPD is from the baby whisperer and that worked like a charm with my DD x

However I was holding off more advice as it sounds like things are improving again.

Ooh, everyone's waiting for my update

I'm pleased to report last night was great. DD had about 50ml of her cup of bedtime milk (we're using the same on as you ginger) and a BF at 7pm and went to bed well. She woke at 10.45 so I went into her but instead of cradling her - in what I realised was a very BF like position - I put her up over my shoulder and away from my boobs until she dozed off and then cradled her ready to be put down. The first time, she woke within minutes but the second time, she slept till about midnight. We fell asleep I my bed and I woke at about 3 and moved her back to her own bed before she woke for another feed. She didn't wake up till 5.20 so while I'd been up to move her, she'd been asleep for about 5 hours!!

And then lovely DH got up with her at 6am and let me have another 3 hours sleep! :)

I got up and fed her at 9.30am and she's down for her nap now - 40 mins and counting...

So last night we were back to a middle of the night and an early morning feed which is amazing. I just hope it continues.

I used to have the Baby Whisperer book :) I gave it to my sister when her little girl was born 8 weeks ago. Maybe I'll have to borrow it back? Someone on my antenatal thread had suggested making DD wait for at least 3 hours between feeds (but just at night, not through the day) and we did try it for a couple of nights - probably not long enough TBH as she did cry at lot at the 1am feed (having previously fed at 11.30) and it seemed to make the rest of the night worse. Maybe our mistake was not carrying it on through the day though?

We've not tried a bottle while she's asleep recently. I did when she was very little and wanted her to be able to have ExBM for a night out I ended up missing as she wouldn't take it. She older now though so maybe worth trying again. I did try her with a little more of the bedtime milk in the cup once she dropped off last night but that just woke her and made her cry.

Thank you everyone for your advice. I really appreciate it. :)

Well. morning nap was 1h 20mins and this afternoon, she's had half an hour which is really good for her.

Eating well again too. Making roast dinner so hoping she'll have some of that too. My Yorkshire puddings are always a hit :)

Rock on!!! Great stuff. Happy well rested babies make happy mummies

Not going so well tonight. DD was tired early so we did bath/bedtime half an hour early and forgot to make the bedtime milk up! She seemed OK with just the BF and went to bed OK but then woke uo 10 minutes later and screamed!!

I tried settling her 3 or 4 times, then DH tried - which made her really mad! - so I gave up and brought her back down for another BF before she woke DS up. She's finally in bed and asleep (for now) over an hour later than normal.

So hoping the rest of the night goes better. She's eaten loads today so missing out on 50ml of milk shouldn't make that much difference should it? We've made it up anyway so if she wakes again in the next 2 hours should I give it to her?