HELP! 9 month old getting worse not better.

[AlCrowley]

DD has always been a terrible sleeper. I joked before she was born that I was due a non-sleeping baby this time after DS who slept through from 8 weeks and it really has come true.

After months of struggle, we'd finally gotten to the point where she was finally having 1 nap in the day then having a BF at 7pm and going to bed and waking at 1.30-ish for a feed then sleeping till 5.30-ish for a feed and being wide awake from then until her nap. We weaned at 5 months on the advice of the HV because she wasn't napping during the day at all! She now eats really well.

Again on the HV's advice, 4 days ago, I added a FF at bedtime along with her BF. She's never taken a bottle - just screams if you put one in her mouth - so we've been giving "bedtime milk" from a tippy cup. She maybe takes an ounce or two before she cries for boob at which point I BF her to sleep as normal. But since then, her sleep has gotten even worse. We now have the 7pm feed, an 11pm feed, then the 1am feed and an extra 3am feed before the 5.30 wake up. The only bonus is that her nap has extended to more like 90 mins most days.

So I'm giving up on the HV and asking MN - what do I do now? Do I ditch the FF or should I give it a few more days to see if she settles? Is there anything else i can do to encourage her to sleep through - or at least go back to just 2 wakes? DH, DS and I are all desperate for a full nights sleep now

Any advice would be appreciated

It could have been possibly teeth or wind perhaps? Don't worry. There will always be bumps in the road but everytime you're learning what makes her tick and can adjust things for next time. ((hugs))

Poor thing was beside herself. She seems OK now though.

My positivity from this morning is definitely wobbling though.

It is hard when things don't go to plan you can panic and think "oh no we're back to where we were" I also used to then spin into negative thinking and think tonights going to be awful etc and quietly work myself up

She's slept well 2 nights in a row. When you've listed what you do and how you do it, you sound spot on. With developmental milestones and sleep regression at times there will be blips but things will get better as she grows. This too shall pass.

Thank you :)

And thank you for your support. It is really helping.

Last night was awful

After the struggle to get her to sleep, she woke at around midnight like normal and we went to my bed for a feed. I dozed as she fed and was shocked to check the clock when she'd finished and see that the time was 1.30!! Definite comfort suckling - she can't have been feeding for 90 mins!!

She woke again at 2.45 and although she couldn't have been hungry, she definitely wanted to suckle again so I gave her another feed. She wasn't at all sleepy afterwards and was pulling my hair and singing. After a while, I decided to try putting her back in the cot anyway. She carried on singing for a while and I left her to it until it turned to tears. When I went in, she was sat up in bed! She's never done that on her own before!! I settled her again and put her down quiet but still awake and soon she was crying again. DH had a go and managed to get to sleep around 4am. She then slept through until 6.15am.

Will not be forgetting the bedtime milk tonight! And maybe digging out the dummies. If she wants to comfort suck maybe she'll take one of those instead? Will try her out today with them.

It's very difficult when you're tired and also far too tempting to slip them into bed with you when they wake, so you can snooze as they feed. I suspect she maybe waking though just for the pleasure of your company and to then get into bed with you, as she's much more self aware by this age than a younger baby. She knows that if she wakes and shouts you'll put her in your bed. So I think if you stop doing this she'll soon realise that there is no point to waking as she doesn't have the pleasure of your bed imo. Maybe that sounds harsh, especially as some mumsnetters co sleep for many years. I do think in your case though, if sleep is important to you, you need to do this.

I think you need to feed her in her own room only and then put her back in her cot when she has finished and leave imo. If she is comfort sucking and not having a feed then you need to tell her "it's sleepy time" and lie her down again and leave. Are you giving her teething gel before the feed? I always did it before as then after the feed when they're dopey and you lie them down, they hopefully go to sleep. Whereas if you suddenly administer the gel after the feed, they get cross and become wide awake again and you're back to square one again. At least if you always give the teething gel at night you know if she gets cross it is not related to sore gums. There is always something to feel guilty about as a mum. However I think personally it is time to nip it in the bud before she gets bigger and the problem gets worse.

Today is a new day. Try and make sure she has a good nap today and eats well and tonight try and be more consistent on your approach.

Just remember she is 9 months old now, she doesn't really need the middle of the night feed now. If she eats well in the day has a good feed at bedtime and an 11pm feed. Then she should manage to 5/ 6 am really. If you stay awake to feed her and watch what she does you'll probably find she hardly takes anything in the middle of the night and it's purely comfort as well as wanting to share your bed.

This maybe littered with typos, I need to go as the DCs are causing havoc.

I'll be back later x

Hoping when that book arrives and you read the relevant age specific chapter it'll help you as well.

I think you're right. I need to stop making the middle of the night feeds so cuddly and warm - and alluring. DD's room is the box room so no space for a chair (like I had with DS - he never came in our bed) but I could bring her down to the lounge to feed her and just sit in the dark. No fun for me but then neither is getting up so if it puts her off then eventually, we both win.

The HV said she's big enough now to go the whole night without a feed, especially as she's eating so well - we just need to convince DD :)

We're at home today so I can make sure she's in bed for naps so she gets the best sleep. DS is back at pre-school tomorrow and she tends to fall asleep in the buggy on the way home from drop-off but hopefully, as the house is quiet, she should still get a good sleep. Or maybe I should bite the bullet and move her? DS could always be moved but DD is a much lighter sleeper.

My second child never transferred well from his car seat/ buggy into the cot if he'd fallen asleep in them instead. My DD was good at transferring though. If that was what you meant

I've been known to sit on the floor cross legged to feed to keep me awake at night. LOL not for everyone though. There is a risk if you take her in the lounge that she'll think it's time to get up and not sleep? Tricky if her room is tiny...

It'd be dark and quiet and that's where I feed her at bedtime very night...?

It's that, our room or crossed legged on her bedroom floor which would definitely keep me awake! :)

Right, no more bringing her to bed. Starting tonight.

Yeah baby steps. I would do a gradual change of settling at night. I think I alluded to it in previous posts anyway. So still offer boob for now just do not take her in your bed. Then as the weeks go by, you can re-evaluate and perhaps not offer it at all in the middle of the night. One step at a time though. Not putting her in your bed is a good start

Right, I'm going to try and remember to put a blanket on the sofa tonight to keep my feet warm while I feed. :)

Good news for today - DD has slept really well. An hour this morning and an hour and a half this afternoon

She usually only has 20 mins/half an hour!

Crossing fingers that a well rsted baby makes for more sleep tonight, not less

Probably catching up from all the fun last night

Right, DD has had her bedtime milk (although she did only drink 25ml!) and a BF and is in bed. We managed to squeeze DS's bedroom chair between the cot and the drawers. It's taken up about 40% of the floor space but I can now feed her in there - and it's only going to be for a week or two till we crack this right? I've even remembered to put a blanket in there to keep my legs warm while I feed her. So we're all set. Just hope she co-operates now!

It went well. She woke at 12.30am, fed (although feed did take 45 mins and turned into comfort suckling so I unlatched her and cuddled her till she fell asleep) and she went back down till 3.30am. Got up and fed her again. Only took 20 minutes this time. She was awake but dozy so I laid her down and left the room. After a couple of shouts, she fell asleep on her own. Woke at 6.15 and was chatting so I brought her into our room so she wouldn't disturb DS who is in the room next to her. She was wide awake with no chance of further sleep so made her wait till 6.45 for her morning feed hoping that if she starts to expect it later, she might wake later.

So all in all a good night I think. Got pre-school ourselves this morning so I'm hoping it doesn't mess up her nap too much. Fingers crossed.

Glad it went ok. Was today alright?

Try and have an early night tonight as you probably need it

She had an hours nap when we got back from dropping DS at pre school (carried her all the way back so she wouldn't go to sleep in the buggy and i could get her in bed for it) and half an hour this afternoon so not as good as yesterday but still OK. I'm just pleased that we seem to be getting a proper routine nap wise.

She also seems to be wanting a pre-lunch feed now so I've been letting her have one about 11.30. Hopefully the extra milk in the day will help.

She had the most bedtime milk she's ever had tonight too. She drank almost the full cup. I only make her half the suggested amount at the moment though so that's about 3ozs. We've been using a basic Tommee Tippe cup but I'm considering trying to find one with a valve to let the air in for her as I think that would make it easier for her to drink from.

Have managed a 5k run tonight so now I'm showered and clean, I'm going to have a quick MN and then try to get in bed by 9.30. You're right, an early night will help and I always sleep better when I've run :)

My two slept at 10.30am and 3pm at this age and drank 7 fl oz at bedtime. It was hard to keep them awake to 10.30am but they then slept for 90 mins the 3pm nap was always 45 mins without fail and then bedtime at 6.30pm.

Can't rememeber if I mentioned that down thread.

It sounds fine to me though what you're doing. She wouldn't have been as tired today though as she slept well last night

Looking forward to catching up tomorrow again.

I'm super tired, so can I just apologise in advance for typos

I'm so tired, I can barely read never mind find typos!! :)

Last night was not good

DD woke first at 9.45pm and was obviously hungry as when I picked her up over my shoulder, she was pushing against my chest with her hands and trying to get her head down closer to my boobs, so after 10 minutes or so of trying to resettle her and just getting her more agitated, I just fed her - hoping that maybe a late night feed would push back the midnight and 3am feeds so we could get through the night with just 1 wake.

The next wake was a bit later than normal at 1.30am and again, I tried to resettle her first but she did her pushing and dipping so again, I fed her.

But then she woke at 2.45. As it was only just over an hour from the last feed and as she wasn't doing her rooting, I decided not to feed her. I don't think she was hungry but she just wasn't settling. So between me and DH, we rocked and jigged her - screaming - until she finally went back to sleep at 4.30am!! DH took the last shift and I had decided that if he came back and she was still crying, then I would feed her as it would then have been 3 hours since the last feed but as she fell asleep, I didn't need to. She then slept till 7am and I fed her at 7.30 so in the end, she went for 6 hours.

I've taken the bedguard off our bed this morning (put on to stop her rolling out when we co-slept) to try and give me a little more resolve for tonight. Another night like that would be awful.

Daytime naps seems to have fallen into 9.30am and 2.30pm with bed at 7pm. For ages, we had no naps at all which is why we started weaning at 5 months on the HV's advice, and for ages more, we only had an half hour morning nap. Getting 2 steady naps or a decent-ish length is enough for me for now, I'll leave messing with them until we get nights sorted.

DS was a dream sleeper doing proper naps and full nights from weeks old! It's amazing how different they are.

Thanks for looking forward to catching up. Can't be the most exciting part of your day waiting for the tired ramblings of a stranger but it's really helping me. The advice is great and it's very reassuring to talk through what I'm doing - so thank you :)

I like being here for you. I found it very hard when both my children were being sleep trained and would find it terribly hard at night when they woke a lot.

Do you think if you'd just left her for a few minutes at a time in her cot to shout, she'd have settled faster? Or is that a bad idea PUPD did work well with my DD but not with DS, being the strong character he was I had to leave for 5 mins each time and then go in and calm and then leave again, nothing else worked. He was a tricky chap, at the time I felt awful about it but he's a good sleeper now. Saying that last night he woke at 11.30pm very upset and I had to give him calpol and a drink but he doesn't normally wake. She may sleep more today again to catch up bless her. I suspect when that book arrives you'll be reading the relevant chapters asap I know if you are determined to not feed them they do say the H should go in but to be prepared for the baby to shout when the goal posts are moved. It's so hard You don't mind a feed here and there though, you just object to frequent wakings. Are you using the teething gel? (sorry I sound like a nag/ fish wife )

We did leave her to shout. Not at first but when it became clear that she wasn't interested in settling, we had to be a little more harsh. I was trying my best to settle her, then laying her down when the screaming stopped, which usually started the screaming again and leaving her for a few minutes before going back in again. I had tried cuddling her and shushing and patting her first but neither worked. I'm amazed she didn't wake DS - or at least he never got up.

DH did at least 50% of the settling last night and had an hours drive to work this morning. She was just as mad at him as she was at me. I really don't think she was hungry though, she never rooted at all. I remembered to put the gel in her room last night but then forgot to put any on DH might have done though.

Well, I finally got her down for a nap at 11.25. Not sure if that's a good or bad thing or what it'll mean for this afternoons nap and bedtime tonight.

DS has his swimming lesson at 3.30 so I hope she doesn't want to nap then!

Book just arrived. It's very thick!! Will have a look once I've built a LEGO vets with DS :)

Hi AlCrowley, we're having similar problems and I think there's is often a developmental leap about 9 months which only adds to the chaos. We'd just got down to waking once night (after late nighter) but now it's twice again and he's ready to play at 4am!

Good tip about the position you hold them in if you don't intend to feed - I shall try to remember to put that into practice as I blearily stumble around.

Dream feeds worked like the proverbial for DS1 but they don't seem to register with this one.