Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

[carriemumsnet]

Tomorrow Parliament will debate whether to outlaw smacking completely. The current law allows parents (and some carers) to discipline children using "reasonable punishment" but outlaws punishment that leaves physical marks or causes mental harm. The last attempt to impose a full ban on smacking was defeated in 2004 .

We've put together a quick (and we mean quick) two question poll to see what Mumsnetters think about this and will hopefully be able to make your views known to the world first thing tomorrow.

For more info on the story click here

Everyone who takes part in the poll will be entered into this week's competitions to win one of 3 sets of Walker picture books worth £100 each, a week's luxury ski accommodation in France or one of 4 Fisher-Price doll and stroller sets. For more info on comp prizes click here

And just in case you need the poll link again it's here

Once you've done the poll please add your views on the subject here (as if mumsnetters need any encouragement to make their views known ).

Thanks

MNHQ

If it's illegal there is no 'agree with smacking' anymore. It's past and so it should be. I hope.

Would anyone accept your DP smacking yourself if you stepped out of line? Thank god the law has changed on that.

this thing about smakcing children being the same as smacking adults is ridiculous. You should not smack a child once it has reached the age it can be reasoned with but small children often CANNOT be reasoned with.
there is no mielage at all to be had in comparing with adults.

But would you smack an adult that was incapable of understanding reason?

I don't think that the issue should be legalised more than it currently is.
There are already child protection laws that would cover a child being physically abused.
A smack from a parent who has tried everything else may not be right but to criminalise that parent for making that bad decision is not a good one in my opinion.

To me. IMHO there should never be a reason to physically cause pain to another human being, whatever their age. It's not on and should be illegal. Then no parent has the 'reasonable corporal punishment' to back them up. What does it achieve?

one of the really big problems with smacking is the enduring legacy. Smack as a response when they are small DOES become a problem-solving strategy until they become too big to smack. By then the understanding given to the child is that violence works as a method of control.

Fast fwd to their adulthood, and we discover that, almost to a person, men convicted of domestic violence offences, were "chastised" as children, and had learned that this is an option to deal with "unruly" partners who hadn't learned "their own" accepted codes of behaviour.

SO a BIG no to smacking for all our sakes.

and yes, skiing please.

Good post Pan!

I'm not defending smacking as an effective tool for managing behaviour, but I think in these debates you need to define your terms if you're going to make causal links like that. Chastisement meaning what?

That may be so, but I think you may find that most people have at one time or another been smacked by a parent. They haven't all turned into wife beaters. I certainly have no particular recurrent desire to hit people, nor have my siblings or in-laws all of whom were occasionally smacked by their parents (but rarely enough to remember an incident or two).

I can't see the point in introducing law for the sake of "message". Do we have a huge problem in this country with parents occasionally looking their temper, or deciding that some actions need something more than the naughty step (an utterly ineffective punishment for my dd)?

If there is evidence from somewhere that has banned all smacking that this reduces child abuse then fair enough, but otherwise I think it is pointless posturing.

If it's illegal to hit another adult then it should be illegal to hit a child

AGREE

simple,

end of,

no one should be able to hurt any child,

even just a little bit,

no,

not even a little,

childen are children,

they are fragile,

and they are precious,

they should never be hit,

whatever.

I was smacked as a last resort, when I was a kid and guess what I do now? Hit out as a last resort. So behaviour is learnt. Not a good lesson IMO.

Snoopdog, agree, agree, agree. No limits just ban it.

one of the really big problems with smacking is the enduring legacy.

a smack as a response when they are small DOES become a problem-solving strategy until they become too big to smack.

By then the understanding given to the child is that violence works as a method of control.

pan, exactly...

after many years of 'taps' and 'pokes' and 'slaps' and 'stabs in the back of the hand for not eating properly'

all of which never did me any harm,

i still chose never to smack my dd,

why would/could i ever lay a hard/harsh finger/hand on her?

i really hope i never do...

my Dh was beaten with a belt as a child. He is not violent in any way and never will be. it is false logic to assume that, because 'all' wifebeaters etc. were chastised as a child, that all men who were chastised as a child become wifebeaters etc.

I don't see any diminution in violence among the younger population as a result of current legalities; quite the opposite. Or peraps your argument will be that it hasn't been in place long enough? but reduction in corporal punishment has been in place for over 30 years now and violence amoung the yoof has grown inordinately.

yes, I was smacked as a child, as a 'last resort', but I do remember thinking even then that this is no good way to help me see a better way.

The very thought of hitting my dd, aged 8, is utter anathema on so many levels. Inflicting pain on her as a 'tool'. No thanks. Violence is used as an alternative to authority.

No, not all kids who have been "chastised" end up being partner-beaters, but the invitation is there - parents are our biggest role-models - and those who don't progress to continuing the violence have thought things through for themselves, such as me, or, have had very positive other role-models to counter the detrimental effects otherwise.

As a man, I do feel quite responsible for the potential I have to pass on good and bad stuff. My dd will never accept violence on any level. Partly I am sure due to me, or her mum, never hitting her.

"it is false logic to assume that, because 'all' wifebeaters etc. were chastised as a child, that all men who were chastised as a child become wifebeaters etc."

I didn't say this. But the evidence is claringly clear. To be beaten as a child isn't a prerequisite to abuse later in life, but it DOES become a choice to fall back on when stressful times are experienced.

or "glaringly" clear, even!!

I was smacked as a child and i didn't actually mind it. OBviously i wouldn't want to be smacked and i would beg, plead and hide to avoid it but once i could do no more to try and get out of it i just thought ok let's get it over with least the pain only lasts a second - it's better than being grounded for a month.

I think generally when people say tap they mean a light slap. one that doesn't really hurt but shocks instead. a tap on the shoulder might not hurt me, but it would shock me if i wasn't expecting it.

i was smakced too but only when i deserved it - and i feel that i probably did deserve it! it didn't do me any harm then and I would not tolerate any kind of physical abuse now.

AS my ds is less than a year old at the mo i can't see myself smacking him but who knows what he'll get up to when he's bigger.

So long as he doesn't expct that he will be deserving of "respeck, innit" when he's older, unless he's done something to achieve respect...

I have never smacked in anger but I have in fear / shock. I felt shite afterwards but in both cases the 'lesson' was learnt by my willful dd and she didn't do it again.

My parents smacked - at least my mum did, my dad SCREAMED in my face and then ignored me for a couple of weeks - and this could be for something as simple as not tidying my bedroom. I preferred my mums way. Even now, 30 years later I have a far better relationship with my mum, and I'm still a little scared of my dad...... My dd will never be scared of me - maybe scared that if she runs out of the supermarket and straight into the road she might get a smack....but not scared of me.

No to banning. There is a big difference between beating/abusing a child and smacking one

If there's a law specifically banning smacking, what about pushing and shoving, restraining, hair pulling, kicking, ear-tweaking etc because because physical punishments can take many forms. Some parents who rely on smacking may get round any anti smacking law by using another physical punishments instead.

And in some cases there is a thin line between restraining a child for their own safety or holding down a child purely as punishment.

You don't need to smack. It brings you down to the level of the child. Discussion, timeout, etc, there are many better alternatives. In Sweden it is illegal, a law makes it less ambiguous, but do we really need another law? I guess some cannot stop themselves unless it is made illegal.

So, yes, a law.

Well I have read this thread with interest
Firstly a while back, dh and I were reported to SS for smacking our children
DD reported us to her school because we took her mobile phone off her(needless to say a smack had not taken place for a couple of months)
I was interegated for hours by SS, the children were interveiwed, I was interviewed
questions such as did you use an open hand or a closed fist, was a belt used,any sort of weapon used
albiet SS where looking for something juicy maybe but they werent getting it
they tried to accuse dh of using a belt(which was completely untrue) and tried to charge him with assault
the whole thing was awful, that has torn my family apart

i agree with the child protection laws being put in place, but there is a very thick line between smacking and beating your kids.

In my case I found this sort of interagation and manipulation of my children disgusting by SS

btw I was told by dd's school that even a light tap obliged them to contact SS

this is just taking it too far and the whole thing is arse uo imo
they are taking the parental responsibility away from the parents, well if these do gooders want my dc's for the day they are most welcome and try reasoning with the pokes,prods, swearing teenagers that I have.

Next thing they will be banning shouting at children

I don't understand how this would be enforced.
I think smacking a child for doing something dangerous, like running into a road, is very far removed from abuse.
As a parent, it's my responsibility to raise my child, not the govenment.

arse up* sorry