Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

[carriemumsnet]

Tomorrow Parliament will debate whether to outlaw smacking completely. The current law allows parents (and some carers) to discipline children using "reasonable punishment" but outlaws punishment that leaves physical marks or causes mental harm. The last attempt to impose a full ban on smacking was defeated in 2004 .

We've put together a quick (and we mean quick) two question poll to see what Mumsnetters think about this and will hopefully be able to make your views known to the world first thing tomorrow.

For more info on the story click here

Everyone who takes part in the poll will be entered into this week's competitions to win one of 3 sets of Walker picture books worth £100 each, a week's luxury ski accommodation in France or one of 4 Fisher-Price doll and stroller sets. For more info on comp prizes click here

And just in case you need the poll link again it's here

Once you've done the poll please add your views on the subject here (as if mumsnetters need any encouragement to make their views known ).

Thanks

MNHQ

AS others have said a ban won't make any difference to those who hit children. I've not smacked yet, ds is still too young, but I don't rule it out. I certainly remember a hard-ish slap on the bum or 2 growing up and it has its place. A child hell bent on doing something isn't going to sit quietly while mum or dad explains why they don't want it doing. It can, where necessary, bring them up short and make them realise that their behaviour in that instant is unacceptable and a serious issue.

However, I don't agree with it as an every day sort of punishment, all you are doing then is teahing your children to use force to get a message across.

Interestingly we we talking about smacking at the weekend with a bunch of friends, all of them childless and in early 20s. The above was pretty much the general consensus and most (especially the boys) had been smacked for going a few steps too far as children.

totally agree with artichokes (bugger it, she puts it so much better than me too)

I don't do it - or very very rarely I smack a hand which is going to do something to endanger its owner or another member of our household. Thus usually something dangerous and unanticipated.

No laws are perfect and this one isn't enforceable, it would just get the wrong people and feed the media with stories of unjust accusations to 'innocent' parents. IYSWIM.

Save energy and legislation for trying to catch those who prey on and injure innocent children, get a uk "megans law" first.

then if ther should be a ban on smacking then there should be zero tolerance of any form of physical punishment whether it be smacking a child or not

domestic violence
bullying
children hitting there own parents
children hitting other children

ok lets ban any form of physical punishment
Would it work?

The thing is that legislation is not the tool to "send a message" to people that something is wrong. That is what Government information campaigns are for (and maybe this would be a good idea for one of those).

Legislation is for outlawing things. And is something is outlawed the police have a duty to investigate and arrest offenders. If a law bans something and the police do not try and find all offenders because they don't have the resources, or the investigation is impossible, then the law is a bad law.

For those who suppport an outright ban how would you like police to enforce it?

The police do not enforce laws in a black and white way already. There will be no parents prosecuted for the odd smack unless there is something else going on.

That's a good point artichokes but there are plenty of laws that aren't really enforced. Drink driving? Talking on your mobile while driving? Drinking on the tube?

If the ability to prosecute was necessary to implement a new law, there wouldn't be half the laws that have been introduced in the last few years

A total ban on smacking is impossible to police. It is self evident and anyone can see that. This alone makes it futile to ban in law. How do you police smacking in the home?

No to ban, for same reasons as Artichoke.

Note to Seeker about the behaviour of children whose parents use smacking - chicken or egg?. I have one child who I have never needed to smack. Two others I have smacked, when removing, talking etc have not worked and they still insist in using the washing machine to climb onto the kitchen counter and try to touch the hot kettle.

It is not a nie thing, I don't like it and I have never done it because I have lost my temper. Hwr, it is something I will use if the need arises, and it has in the past been the only thing that has worked.

It is a tough one, but I think the law is the best we can do.

Drink driving is enforced in that if the police find someone doing it they are arrested. They do not ask about mitigating circumstances before hauling you off to the station.

Do we really want the police to arrest everyone they find smacking, even if that is a light smack by a scared parent after a child has done something dangerous?

PS - I don't think drinking on the tube is acutally illegal, Boris banned it overnight when he came into power. Was there ever legislation? Legislation takes months to pass.

"If a law bans something and the police do not try and find all offenders because they don't have the resources, or the investigation is impossible, then the law is a bad law."

Does the law against rape come into that catagory then? If it's reallt all about resourses. Or to a lesser degree of serioulsness, 'e' being a class a drug.

Surely legislation is there to send a message - to people who don;t get governmental PR campaigns?

An the point is people who beat, not occasionally smack their kids, are not reasonable people.

and it would also get more women to go to their docs for help with PND I suspect

I was slapped as a child, bloody hard, it left marks - a complete ban would have made no difference, they completely denied they did it full stop.

I am against banning smacking. I know very few parents of school aged children who have never ever raised a hand to their child. They are all good parents. Pouring guilt onto guilt, ineffective social worker onto ineffective parenting technique, will solve nothing.

There needs to be compulsory parenting classes with creche for EVERYONE IN THIS COUNTRY REGARDLESS OF INCOME. And that means the rich have to go too!

look at what has happened with all the fuss about paedophilia - men hardly dare go near a child who is not their own, even to help them!

Criminalise smacking and you won't be able to push or pull your young child away from danger without someone arresting you, they can get run over/ burnt instead. Soon you won't even be able to hold them firmly if they are having a temper tantrum.

We already have laws about assault that are perfectly adequate to deal with cases where a child is being beaten.

Anyone remember the child who didn't want dental treatment?

A real tough one, this IMO. Pre ds I thought there was nothing wrong with smacking, post ds I don't want to use violence against him, but there have been times when, at the end of my tether, I have been less than gentle in removing him from what he is not meant to be doing and can feel myself getting worked up. The problem is that surely no one smacks when they are feeling calm and rational, therefore it not a good method of discipline. That said, I don't agree with the 'smacked children become violent' argument. I was smacked as a child, as were many people my age (late 30's) and I was not and am not a violent person.

Expat for PM!

Oh lord this is going to sound wa**ery, GeorgeandTimmy - but why didn't you move the kettle?

And did the smacking work?

I support a ban on smacking.

Physical punishment is unacceptable. If I smacked an adult because I didn't like their behaviour I could be charged with assault, and rightly so. So why is it acceptable to assault a child who often doesn't even have the intellectual developmental ability to know what they have done wrong?

I don't know how it would be policed but making it illegal would send a clear message that it is not acceptable to physically assault vulnerable members of society.

why didn't she move the kettle? to where? a cupboard?

ban. otherwise nothing much to enforce unless there is real harm. and it is just crap, losing temper with child and walloping it. or even worse, planning to hit.

I haven't smacked yet and hope I don't have to. I disagree with smacks as "punishment" in an older child. If a child understands that it is punishment for an action, they can understand alternative punishments such as removal of favourite toys etc.

But I do believe that smacking has a place, particularly for a younger, less verbal child in a dangerous situation. A sharp, painful shock to teach them that the road/plug socket/fire must be avoided, if they don't listen to "NO!".

My attitude to smacking has changed since become the mother to a toddler. I used to think it was okay as a last resort, but now I can't see any reason why you'd choose to smack if your intention is to help your child to learn something from their punishment. There are so many effective ways to 'enforce discipline' (apols for the military sound of that phrase) that I think smacking is pretty pointless.

I certainly don't favour an all-out ban, though. As someone said earlier, if the aim is to reach those who are abusing their children, a ban won't do it. As for the rest of us, what we need is not judgment but ongoing support to become better parents.

Why not a cupborad? Surely it's better to move the kettle for a month or so til the child grows out of that phase than smack it? (the child, obviously - smacking a kettle would be silly)

Depends if it was the kettle's fault for asking to be touched...

Done.
I have smacked my DC but very rarely and not for a long time.
I don't like to see parents hitting out at a child.

(I can't use the skiing holiday though so don't let me win that one.)