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MNHQ

Would you ban smacking? Take our two-question-takes-less-than-10-seconds poll (and be entered into this week's comp)

263 replies

carriemumsnet · 07/10/2008 18:40

Tomorrow Parliament will debate whether to outlaw smacking completely. The current law allows parents (and some carers) to discipline children using "reasonable punishment" but outlaws punishment that leaves physical marks or causes mental harm. The last attempt to impose a full ban on smacking was defeated in 2004 .

We've put together a quick (and we mean quick) two question poll to see what Mumsnetters think about this and will hopefully be able to make your views known to the world first thing tomorrow.

For more info on the story click here

Everyone who takes part in the poll will be entered into this week's competitions to win one of 3 sets of Walker picture books worth £100 each, a week's luxury ski accommodation in France or one of 4 Fisher-Price doll and stroller sets. For more info on comp prizes click here

And just in case you need the poll link again it's here

Once you've done the poll please add your views on the subject here (as if mumsnetters need any encouragement to make their views known ).

Thanks

MNHQ

OP posts:
whooosh · 07/10/2008 21:30

Not read the whole thres (usually a pet hate of mine) but to avoid being swayed.

I do not smack my child but reserve the right to in certain circumstances.

If DD was to ignore me and run into a road,I would have no hesitation to give her a smack-purely to shock her (as I have only doen it once befor)inot never doing it again.

Two warnings in a dangerous situation (eg-sticking things in plug sockets) would probably also need to a smack.

Because it has rarely(if ever) used the effect should be long-lasting. IMO

GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 21:35

Seeker - remove the kettle - well, we could have, but then he would simply go back to it when it was returned. He is that kind of child. Smacking his hand when he reached out for him gave him a shock, and he doesn't touch it now. It was either I smacked him, or he learned by getting burned by it. He is now three and still not a child who listens to reason. He will try to do whatever he wants to and has no fear. Therefore a physical shock is more effective than words or distration/removal.

As I said, I have never had to smack my eldest. She does listen, and does not want to make me cross with her, plus she doesn't have the dangerous streak that ds does. If I had just had her, I would probably say that smacking isn't necessary myself...

BeHereNow · 07/10/2008 21:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MNHQ
carriemumsnet · 07/10/2008 21:40

Thanks all for doing the survey and for the feedback so far.

We're hoping to get 1000 responses before tomorrow and we're over half way there, so please, please get everyone you know to do our super quick survey... feel free to nag other mumsnetters on our behalf...wake 'em up.. interrupt other threads....whatever it takes

OP posts:
GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 21:41

I have just realised that I have used a smack to protect my child from greater harm. Not as punishment, or in anger, but as a lesson where works are not enough.

Lucky you for those who have not had to do it, I will happily lend you my ds for a week, and while you may not smack him in that time I am certain you would be relieved to return him to me

Peachy · 07/10/2008 21:42

I'm with LTH and also agree with expat.

I was beaten as a child; there is a massive difference than that and a single smack. A smack s something I ever do now, once or twice in the past in desperation but although I felt bad I don't think I was criminal. Desperate- but not criminal.

GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 22:11

Bumping out of guilt that I may have killed this thread because my posts are SO well argued, that there is nothing left to say

hatwoman · 07/10/2008 22:14

agree with notmyfanjo and others, it sends the right message. physical violence is not acceptable. I can't get the principle that it's not ok to smack an adult but is ok to smack a child. and I really don;t get the idea of smacking to prevent greater danger, including with a non-verbal child. if my child's about to put their finger in a socket or run into the road then I find grabbing them is the most effective thing to do. followed by removing them from the danger. or the danger from them. how does smacking them actually help in that situation?

however I think some people are seeing this in black and white terms and forgetting how the law in general works. The law allows defences, it allows for mitigating circumstances. Now I personally can't imagine what they would be, but just because you criminalise something it doesn;t necessarily mean that you'll always be found guilty of it.

BirdyArms · 07/10/2008 22:27

Haven't read the thread but I felt ashamed to have to answer yes to the 'have you smacked your child' question. I smacked ds1 once quite lightly on the leg when he repeatedly took his car seat straps off, aged 2.0 so not a very reasonable age. Tried everything else and did it as a last resort and actually it worked, he didn't do it again. I didn't do it in anger, more in desperation, and I'm pleased that I haven't done it since.

Whether or not it should be against the law is a tough question, I answered no on the basis that I don't think that every instance of a child being smacked causes great harm. But I do think that the fact that it's not illegal makes it much more socailly acceptable than it would be otherwise. Smoking bans do seem to have made smoking much less acceptable than it used to be.

fishie · 07/10/2008 22:28

[slap]

for carriemn

GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 22:32

Sorry to be boring about this but, hatwoman, if you grabbed by ds's finger and then removed him, he would just run back, so you remove him again, so he runs back again. It goes on and on. He finally stops running back to it. You occupy him with something else. The pohone rings, you amswer it and ds has his finger in the socket again. It becomes a challenge for him you see? A smack is more likely to work in that scenario I'm afraid.

Actually, we got a super-duper lockable socket cover thing for the main socket in our living room, so never needed to smack ds on that one - we were able to outsmart him in advance. Not always possible though.

tatt · 07/10/2008 22:39

well just to help you bump - and because I'm bored tonight......If all smacking is banned how long do you think it will be before you grab your child to pull them away from danger and soemone reports you to the police? And what do you do if someone is hysterical?

How do you avoid the sort of stupidity you have now where a crying child who has hurt themselves can't be touched by anyone other than their parent (and their father will possibly be reported for it)? Surely what this should have taught us is that when it comes to children there is no defence.

hatwoman · 07/10/2008 22:42

well I can half see what you're saying but the thing that worked in the end was removing the danger (permanently) with your super-duper socket cover. birdyarms's example is actuallu more persuasive - as there was no way of removing the danger. I'm off to ponder .

although I still think banning would be good.

hatwoman · 07/10/2008 22:44

[bit of an aside but I've never come across that kind of stupidity re touching. our school teachers and staff are perfectly happy to give a crying child a hug and a plaster. as I am with my friends' dcs and they with mine.

theirmum · 07/10/2008 22:49

far too fat and unhealthy for sking!

I think it is utterly stupid to try and pass such a ban! I think people should be able to judge what they feel is the best way to bring up their child an abused child will still be abused no matter what bill the govenment pass! where will it end dont tell me if I dont put my Ds to bed dead on 7 thats going to be against the law too!

GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 22:49

hatwoman - I was using the socket as an example, we didn't actually have that particular battle...as we got the socket cover before he started fiddling.

I did smack ds for persistently removing his car seat straps though, as he started to keep doing it just as I pulled off at traffic lights and therefore couldn't pull over safely for a while . I did try telling him not to, reasoning with him, but after a couple of days of him doing it and making himself unsafe, the next time he did it I pulled over when I could, got out and smacked him on the hand.

tatt · 07/10/2008 22:53

standard advice from schools to anyone working with children - do NOT touch. I'm glad some people still have the confidence to ignore it but doesn't avoid the fact that the advice is issued.

DevilishDisasterArea · 07/10/2008 23:02

reasonable people don't need smacking to be banned to tel them that it is wrong. people who do slap and beat their chldren inappropriately will carry on doing it anyway, as do people who drink and drive, people who smoke in front of their children and people who feed their children fruitshots.
yest i've slapped my children when at the very end of my very long teather and no it didn't help at all but making me a criminal for doing so won't help either.

whomovedmychocolate · 07/10/2008 23:04

I'd like anything BUT skiing thanks - can't think of anything worse (except maybe a free pass to the gynaecologist of my choice for life)

Heathcliffscathy · 07/10/2008 23:06

it's a shit argument i'm afraid:

reasonable people don't need a ban they know it's wrong.

SO IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS BANNED TO THEM.

who it matters to is parents who serially smack and need the state to let them know it is wrong. and that they can be punished for it.

Heathcliffscathy · 07/10/2008 23:08

oh and the other one:

smacking works when they are doing something dangerous.

oh ok, when i next see an adult doing something dangerous i'll hit them then.

that makes it ok.

GeorgeAndTimmy · 07/10/2008 23:16

With adults, you can use reason, but that is not always possible with a child, who either doesn't understand reason, or does not have the experience or wisdom to understand that someone else knows better than them.

Adults don't tend to do deliberately dangerous things just for effect either...

randomuser · 07/10/2008 23:24

Books please.
Can't see the point of a total ban. A desperate parent as a last resort smacks their tantruming/throwing things/screaming/biting/bashing brat child and then gets a criminal record for it? Madness.

And it's no good saying that "it's all down to the way they are brought up and it must be ineffectual parenting if they behave like that" - some children just do have the devil in them at times.

Look what happened to that poor dad who slapped his teenage vandal daughter and she called the police on him - a lot of people didn't think HE ought to be criminalised but he was. And now he can't be football trainer for his local youth team or whatever. Really pointful, that was.

Remotew · 07/10/2008 23:29

Yes I would like to see it banned. It doesn't achieve anything, what lesson is violence and how much etc. An out and right ban would draw the boundaries and then hopefully children at risk could be identified if they knew it was against the law.

Also parents need clear boundaries that it's not an acceptable punishment. Just as hitting a fellow adult is illegal and punishable under the law.

There would be no blury lines then. As in 'she needs a good slap'. Hearing this makes parents feel pressurised to dish out corporal punishment when they don't want to.

GinghamRibbon · 07/10/2008 23:43

And what about a parent who does agree with smacking and can't do it anymore but has to sit and discuss why it's wrong why the other children are climbing up the tree outside because now, they know Mummy is busy for about an hour talking to a child who is NOT going to take it in at all.

What if my child says to his teacher 'Mummy smacked me this morning because I was trying to drown my brother', will I be prosecuted.

Absolutely and totally mad and I am new to this forum.