Ageism should be against Talk Guidelines

[Somethingbland]

In the past there has been a lot of disquiet about the blatant ageism on MN.

Today I have been extremely annoyed by a blatantly and unashamedly ageist thread in AIBU about dressing " like an old lady"
I reported the thread and of course was told by MN the thread is allowed to stand because it doesn't contravene Talk guidelines.
But why doesn't it? Why does MN see ageism as perfectly acceptable? It's a total disgrace in my eyes.

I was amongst the first women who were affected by the change in retirement law and was so unable to retire at 60 as had been the norm previously. The discrimination I experienced as an older woman amongst predominantly younger staff was extremely upsetting . To be a figure of fun and contempt because of your age is no joke. And yet MN is apoarently happy to enable such views on this site

You’re in your 20s? Wow you could never tell.

That’s equally offensive

Do I dress like a Muslim woman? Scroll down to picture of person in full burka.

What I absolutely hate is the assumption that older people are right wing Tory or even worse, Reform voters. I've just reached 70 and a lot of my friends are 'left wing loonies' as the press liked to call us, who protested at Greenham Common.

How could MNs ban ageism? There are so many threads berating young people!

I was told it was ageist to refer to a 70 yr old as old 🙄

What I absolutely hate is the assumption that older people are right wing Tory or even worse, Reform voters.

More older people did vote for Brexit but again if you acknowledge that fact it some how equals ageism

I think denigrating or dismissing people's opinions simply because they're older is distasteful and ageist. But as someone in my late thirties, I have said both: "This doesn't look too 'teenage' on me, does it?" and "This isn't too old lady-ish, is it?"

I'm not denigrating either - it's just a shorthand way of saying I don't want an item of clothing to make me look like I'm trying to compete with my teenage children and clutch at a desperate second youth, nor do I want clothing to age me and make me look much older than I am, more comparable to my mother's generation.

Christ. Why do people take offence at so much these days. The woman in that thread is entitled to describe her dilemma in whichever way she wishes. It is NOT offensive. Get a life, OP.

I started full-time work in 1975. Most women weren't encouraged to pay into the company pension scheme. We expected to be able to claim our state pension at the age of 60. Then it eventually got raised by a further six years with very little notice to enable us to prepare. Most of us never received a letter about this. Men of our age only saw their pension age raised by a year. How can this be fair?

Don’t get upset darl, I’ve seen it all on here

Difficult one. Because to quote a line from in the OP's opening post:

"The discrimination I experienced as an older woman amongst predominantly younger staff was extremely upsetting . "

Two mentions of age in that sentence. Is that not differentiating between people based on age? Yes it is.

Having read through the thread quickly, what I do not see is mention of bodies changing as we journey through life. Bulges developing where there was none before. Changes in mobility and flexibility, and how those factors might influence what people choose to wear. How there will be a statistical gradient in the styes people choose to wear.

Then throw in hormones, sex drive and mate seeking, things that are evolution driven that means any group A might style themselves different from group B,C,D etc.

And I don't think comparing ageism to other 'isms really works. Because there are many factors in the style people choose. Cultural, religious and so on. I think eventually most people will get to the point where strappy heeled sandals will be ditched in favour of more comfortable slip ons that feet can be pushed into while holding a door frame for balance.

Add it all together, and I don't think it is ageist to see different demographics in terms of what style they wear. Because in general it is true.

And now I will be accused of being ableist.

It’s ageist to assume there is a singular way of dressing for 60 year olds. Don’t treat people as though they belong to an homogenous set, which can lead to stereotyping. Don’t assume that being in that age group means dressing is a way that’s inferior. Which bit of this do you struggle to understand? The casual ageism on mumsnet is offensive.

This just shows how “old” is deeply ingrained as undesirable.
Should old women not wear bikinis because their bodies aren’t 20 years old?

If you said a wheelchair user shouldn’t be in a short skirt because her legs don’t look great, you’d be rightly shot down.

Also I would think the average age of a user on here is late 50s so it isn’t.a “young” site which should mean less ageism to older people.

Another view of 'old lady dressing' is that it is just another chip on the rock that is ageism. Can't get a home, then it must be the older generations, NEETs, then why don't people retire, older people don't have skills and can't use IT / AI, benefits budget high then let's cut the pensions... this thing about age seems to even be a narrative the government is happy to push, as it deflects from the real issues imo, which are myriad and complex! I get what is being asked but it is not 'old lady' dressing but frumpy and staid dressing and this 64 year old knows words and labels can harm, she dealt with it in her role in helping those living in social housing deal with stigma. Labels stick and words can hurt, perhaps a little more thought about what we say and when would benefit us all. This 64 year old is out on her motorbike today, in clothing that would not look out of place on Whowhatwear and has had to deal with much, but ageism even related to clothing, just reinforces ageism elsewhere.

As I've already said i don't want this to become a taat.

Ageism is rife on MN. And yes I agree with pp that ageism works both ways. Generalising and complaining about younger people as an homogeneous group is also offensive.

Language matters. And we shouldn't use language without being aware of it's effects. That's why racist language and language inciting religious hatred is illegal.

benefits budget high then let's cut the pensions... this thing about age seems to even be a narrative the government is happy to push, as it deflects from the real issues imo, which are myriad and complex!

But pensioner benefits are a huge part of the welfare bill. An ageing population is expensive, that isn’t rocket science or ageist.

I wear some of the same items as my mum (70s) and have always done so but she has always dressed quite differently from her peers.

I would never dress like my granny (90s when she died) as her style was completely different eg she would never wear trousers.

There is nothing stopping anyone from wearing a bikini. It's up to the person if they want to wear one.

Re the wheelchair user in a short skirt ? Who says "don't wear a short skirt because legs don't look great ?" Anyone saying that should be ignored, no matter who they say it about.

@ Peony1985 -
I said that if I wanted to wear a short skirt I would - and I would defend anyone’s right to do so - but there aren’t many women approaching seventy who would look as good in a vest top and a bum-skimming skirt as they did in their teens and twenties. Ditto a bikini. Helen Mirren wore one when she was 63 and looked fabulous: many women wouldn’t. It’s just a matter of choice and facing up to reality. As I say, people should do what they want, but it’s not ageist to point out that people’s bodies do change as they age.

Then you probably shouldn’t have posted on that specific thread that you’d started a thread about ageism in response to it. People are bound to link the two.

You definitely have a point.
When I started this thread I was very incensed about the blatant ageism of that thread that MN obviously didnt have a problem with.
However I have tried to make it clear that thread was just the latest example of ageism on MN..

I think that's ok, it's about how you phrase it I suppose. I'm 62. Probably wouldn't take offense at this example, at other ones I might.

Pretty true. Very few people look good in bum skimming skirts though to be fair 😁

Exactly! but if Gransnet removed every thread similar then the forum would be empty.

Yesterday there was one on Gransnet about the youth being overly anxious and incapable of work.

By their standards it's acceptable to generalise and criticise a whole generation.

🤷‍♀️