what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[largeginandtonic]

I dont post, they make me very uncomfortable.

I feel for the op but just wouldnt know what to say and would be terrified if i said the wrong thing it would push them over the edge.

Refer on sounds like a very good idea.

[objectivity]

I have achieved nothing in terms of getting professional support in the last 24 hours or so. What I have done is begun to change my thinking and see other possibilities. It may change back, I don't know.

Social Services hae failed to makecontact,my Housing Benefitand Income Support applications are still on someones' 'to do' pile, I will still wait to get the counselling I need...

What has happened is I have chatted online about ways forward and other people's experiences and it has made me think a little bit more widely about my personal shit.

Nobody 'saved' me excpet me. If I had died nobody would have been responsible, but without being able to talk a while longer - through here I'd still be finishing off my letters to the DC.

I haven't chucked them, they are still half writtn, but to be honest if allI have is my GPto talk to and a computerised CBT session to attend then fuck me I quit.

[expatinscotland]

There are also plenty of healthcare professionals on these boards who offer valuable advice on non-life-threatening conditions.

But suicide is not exactly on par with potty-training.

[pointydog]

I don't think it's that strange, slubber. Lots of people think they can talk someone out of being depressed. No one can talk someone out of a temperature and a seizure.

[TolpuddlapinMartyrs]

Not that it is their responsibility, at all, but perhaps we could have a static page with useful phone numbers - Samaritans, mental health services, Trusts, etc - that we could immediately refer people to?

Actually, would that be a good idea for all sorts of things, like NHS Direct, La Leche League etc - we could have it in Other Stuff and maintain it ourselves.

[foxinsocks]

well I disagree with you

I do not think this site or ANY site is for 'sharing suicidal experiences'

It's not only the uncomfortable feeling, I think it is MORALLY corrupt. I really do. These are people's lives we are talking about here.

[DumbledoresGirl]

objectivity, have you thought about talking to others who are like-minded but have so far resisted the urge? I know you were offered the chance to talk one on one to my friend who is also suicidal. The thought of the 2 of you talking together and somehow agreeing that ending it is best makes my blood run cold, but I also think talking to people who have been there and know what you are feeling would help you to gain some perspective.

Sorry, all that is an aside to this thread.

[expatinscotland]

And, also, potentially a liability from a legal standpoint.

[pointydog]

Samaritans isn't the only mental health organisation.

It's too much to expect of a chat thread on a parents website.

[MissingMyHeels]

No but it isn't the same as someone with an uncontrollable physical lifethreatening condition either. It's a choice. If that person was in a good place mentally they wouldn't be posting in the first place, if they were then I am sure they could see themselves that they need to call 999.

Posting on the internet is a very passive cry for help, if the person wanted real life help they could ask for it, however, it seems that more often than not they need the anonymity of the internet and the distance of it being a forum not real life, real time with "real" people.

[objectivity]

Just read what has been said while I was typing.

I think the problem may be that for a child with a fever the system works pretty well.You see a doctor either by callin gGP/999 or NHS Direct and then you go home with a prescription or you are referred on to hospital/whatever. You get your dc treated,job done.

With a mental health problem the system is flawed beyond belief. It is also sadly the case that a difficult hom situation can be made worse by those flaws.

I worked for a mental health charity and heard the same thing over and over and over again.

[expatinscotland]

I still don't see where a parenting site should be involved in that, MMH.

But again, I have mostly worked in the legal field and in a country with litigation is common, although it is becoming more so here and that is of concern.

[expatinscotland]

I still don't see where a parenting site should be involved in that, MMH.

But again, I have mostly worked in the legal field and in a country with litigation is common, although it is becoming more so here and that is of concern.

[foxinsocks]

you can email the Samaritans

objectivity, talking to people or sharing problems is one thing

expecting people to talk you out of suicide is quite another and although you say no-one would have been responsible other than you if you had done something, how do you think it would have made the people who shared their experiences feel and what sort of position would it leave mumsnet in? It's a very dangerous precedent isn't it.

look, I'm not sure you're in a position to debate all of this tbh

[objectivity]

Foxinsocks, I was meaning more sharing positive stories re. therapeutic intervention.

When you have received therapy that hasn't helped yoi start not being able to see the wood for the trees and really wonder if there is any other way.

[TolpuddlapinMartyrs]

Look at the first and last posts on this thread

[expatinscotland]

Tol, that could easily have gone the other way, no matter what help was offered.

And in such a case, a parenting forum MUST look at where they stand legally and make a decision about how to handle such OPs.

[WilfSell]

I got involved with objectivity and susie this week. My first time. I then started a thread asking for advice and a debrief. Because I wasn't sure it was a good idea for millions of people, including me, to pile in with their own experiences, hang-ups, prejudices, lack of objectivity or experience.

I think, on the whole, this kind of thing is best left to trained professionals. I don't counsel students at work - I send them to the counsellors or the GP for a referral.

But in the absence of someone on here who can do an online job it feels a bit like walking away from someone in need on the street. I think I'd try not to do that either. Just because I don't know first aid (I do actually) is not a reason to walk by.

It's a difficult one. I actually wanted to post because I thought a lot of the responses were pretty judgey of people in a desperate state and not enough 'get help' or 'I'm listening', both of which, surely, are the main things suicidal people need.

I am also honest enough to appreciate there is a kind of vicarious something - not excitement really - but drama about it all. I guess because it is real people, real time, the instinct is to say something to keep them posting. People want to be the one who makes a difference. That isn't such a bad need. But as someone pointed out on my debrief thread, thinking about what happens if it all goes wrong (and they do kill themselves and what one's own needs and responsibilities are, is important. And it is also important for people to be aware they might do more harm if they don't know what they're doing.

I'm not sure I will do it again.

[objectivity]

Maybe I'm not. But I know how I feel about the availability of mumsnet. sometimes it's the only thing that really feels useful.

I actually don't want people runnign round after me and activly dodged the police yesterday. But I needed a place to get out the stuff in my head. If MN wasn't here then I'd have become embroiled in my thinking and I would not be alive or I would have been sectioned following a failed attempt and then life would really have got beyond repair for me. If I didn't do it yesterday I'ddo it the minute I came out of hospital with nothing left.

[foxinsocks]

yes, I agree with expat

we have loads of trolls on here. What's to stop one posting 'DO IT, Kill yourself'

ok, it would get deleted at some point but if it was on the weekend and MNHQ was a bit slow....

this just isn't the place

I'm sorry people are so desperate but this cannot be the place where people turn for that sort of help

and I agree with Wilf re the drama

[expatinscotland]

K, but you could have dodged the police after they were sent out and done yourself some serious harm and then there could be some serious reprecussions for the people who offered assistance AND the forum as a whole.

[expatinscotland]

We also have had trolls on here who posted and said they'd taken pills and booze.

I'm serious!

madamez and fairfly were just two of the posters on such a thread - me, too - just a few months ago. others were, too.

[MissingMyHeels]

I think a parenting site is one of the most important places for it to be discussed if that's how regular users are feeling. The people who have posted are young mothers with everything to live for.

I agree that it shouldn't turn into suicidenet.com but I think regular users should be able to voice those thoughts and feelings here.

[IHave37PairsOfShoes]

I don't think there are many mental health experts on here and it does bother me that a bunch of amateurs (however well intentioned) are giving advice to people in a very fragile state.

I'm also very concerned that so many other posters get caught up in it all. It can't be good for their own mental health, waiting for the OP to come back on line, not knowing if they've attempted suicide.

And some other posters are just ghoulish in their fascination.