what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[wessexgirl]

Agree that these threads need to be referred somewhere more appropriate as early as poss. Wouldn't say the Samaritans though, because their remit is quite limited - maybe NHS Direct or a mental health service.

[expatinscotland]

the problem is, websites CAN and have been sued over such issues before.

i think it's treading on very dangerous ground and i hope MNHQ is getting legal advice about these types of posts.

[Slubberdegullion]

objectivity. My DH is a GP, I asked him this morning "what would you do if someone contacted you or saw you because they were considering suicide?"

he said

"I would contact the local health team and that person would be seen that day".

Now things may be different in different parts of the country, but was he was saying is if someone is expressing ideations (think that might be the term) about suicide, it is not something that health teams file and sit on for months.

Treatment for chronic mental health problems is a different matter I'm sure.

[Slubberdegullion]

sorry local mental health team, that should be.

[objectivity]

I agree with spritzer grazia dilemma.

[TolpuddlapinMartyrs]

No, I do absolutely agree with you, I don't think it should be the responsibility of MNHQ or MNers, and I though the thread yesterday should have been deleted (at the risk of incurring others' wrath, there was a degree of ghoulishness - did you see the thread the other day where the OP was distressing and some twat came on and berated her for not updating everyone ). I'm just making the point that people DO have real life friendships formed through MN, and often in times of extremis, so if you know that there is someone out there who could actually get hold of a suicidal OP - can you in all conscience not try and get hold of that person?

So for the sake of argument

Cod: I'm going to top myself

Everyone: No! Call the Samaritans!

Cod: No



and no-one who knows your real name, or knows that Finbar is your RL friend, knows about it and is able to CHOOSE to help.

It's very difficult. I can see both sides.

[foxinsocks]

objectivity, that's not been my experience. There is help out there. Whether you choose to access it or not is another thing....

In terms of counselling, I'm aware there are waiting lists but there are GPs, A&E departments etc. where you can take yourself if you feel you aren't coping.

[tiredlady]

Have to agree with slubberdegullion.Feeling acutely suicidal is a psychiatric emergency and if a GP was worried they could refer to the local Community mental health team or, if out of hours, the on call psychiatrist.
They would absolutely be seen that day

[EffieOnThePilgrimageOfGrace]

thing is, no-one is saying 'pull yourself together, get some help and stop boring us with your problems'. More like ' we are not the expert help you need'.

[pointydog]

yes, definitely. Refer on and delete.

[HereComeTheGirls]

I was concerned the other day tbh, when someone posted that they were suicidal and, granted, people were WONDERFUL and talked her out of it, but very few people suggested she get professional help, the gist I thought was we will get you through it, we will help you day by day, which is so nice but I feel personally that if someone is a genuine immediate suicide risk they should be seeing a professional or even be admitted to hospital.

[objectivity]

Yes but really that can take you on a path of yet more hopelessness. Hence,I started a thread about people's experience of barriers between them and getting help.

For example, Housing Benefit stops if you are admitted to a MH ward. So it's all very well seeing a GP and then getting admitted but sometimes that prospect is enough to fling you over the edge in itself.

[tiredemma]

objectivity, I dont know whereabouts you are in the Uk- and I can only use my experiences of the Trust that I am assigned to- If someone expresses extreme suicial ideation and desire, then they are seen immediately.

Prevention of suicide is one the National Service Frameworks and to be left for weeks without help if you are suicidal is outrageous and questionable.

[DumbledoresGirl]

Well, as a close friend of someone who is suicidal and has posted here about it, I do have to say that I find the responses posted here can sometimes be extremely trivial and over-simplified. I am afraid I do not post on such threads anymore because, having read the responses of others to my friend (however well intentioned they might have been in making the comment, they are sometimes so wide of the mark as to be infuriating) I am too acutely aware that I might too say the wrong thing.

But how can you, in all humanity, pull a thread started by someone who is suicidal just because we are not fit to respond? What might that do to someone with the pills and bottle in front of them?

[2shoes]

it does worry me. I posted than became aware it was more serious than i first thought.
mn has a disclaimer on topics like sn maybe we need one on chat.

[foxinsocks]

objectivity, well I think practical threads are one thing (not that I generally post on those anyway)

but your thread was a cry for help, there's no doubting that.

Not having housing benefit but having a mother is a small price to pay.

[Slubberdegullion]

lapin I completely agree with you re mners being allowed to choose to help.

There is however this strange juxtaposition (oo-er can I really use that word) that if someone posts

"my child has a temp of 41, and is fitting. What shall I do"

you would get 300 posts saying

Call 999 NOW

but if someone starts a thread saying they are considering suicide there is a fair smattering of "call the samaritans" or "call your GP", but there are a whole heap of posts that don't say that.

[expatinscotland]

does anyone know if there are legal ramifications to threads like these if the OP does in fact harm themselves?

[fullmoonfiend]

I don't know whjat the answer is, though I do agree in prinicple with cod's OP.

I work in voluntary sector MH and there seems to be feck all support for people 'new' to MH services. People already in the system will at least have a link worker/care co-ordinator to contact in a crisis. But not everyone who is severely depressed is in the system...
And while I applaud Samaritans for existing, I have also heard they are not useful for everyone. Weekends and evenings can be terrible times for severly depressed epople.

Agree though, it's too much responsibility for this site. There will be some posters who for whatever reason (slow day on MN, posting at dinner time, 'unknown' to other posters) who will elicit less sympathy/help/support from the MN community, which in turn could make the matter worse for the potentially suicidal OP IFKWIM.

[DumbledoresGirl]

cod is going to harm herself?

[TolpuddlapinMartyrs]

Yes, I do see your point. I think it is because, as has been said, people don't know what to say.

My contribution to objectivity's thread was mainly confined to trying to update other posters, because I was worried that a lot of other people were getting very upset and had made an emotional investment, and some of those posters have serious issues of their own. That worried me a lot as the thread carried on throughout the day.

[expatinscotland]

i'm going to harm her if she doesn't stop slagging off my taste in shoes .

[MissingMyHeels]

We are also not qualified (most of us anyway!) to offer people advice on pregnancy, childbirth, parenting, weaning, potty training, health issues etc.

This website isn't about what we are equipped and trained to do as individuals, it's about sharing experiences, I don't think suicide should be shyed away from just because it's an uncomfortable subject.

Best case scenario is that peoples comments and experiences helps other people, worst case scenario is it makes no difference. If it is the latter, then that would have been the outcome regardless.

I do think people should approach these posts with caution and there should possibly be a reminder of the code of conduct and in this situation if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all.

[expatinscotland]

No,MMH, but we're talking about a lifethreatening condition here.

And, as Slubber pointed out, any other time someone posts with a potentially life-threatening conidtion every response is, 'Call 999' or 'Call NHS Direct NOW'.