what on earht are you all doing wih tis suiceide stuff

[FluffyMummy123]

Message withdrawn

[PeachyWontLieToYou]

In principle I can see the arguiment for one post saying get help but...

peole who are suicidal just don't always get help. DH used to go to Gp regularly fro top up prozac prescriptions, every time i'd make him promise t tell GP he felt so bad he'd talked about suicide- he never did. And thats not unusual.

Of course we'd all feel terrible if someone went on to kill themselves, wouldn't we feel equally abd if someone posted here, got the standard call samaritans response, didnt and die3d?

Whata re the chances as well of tech / LL seeing a post first? Are people supposed to sit on their hands (after hitting !) to see what happens?

There's a limited amount posters can do but sometimes just having someone there is enough- I remember thata wful night suicidal Dh went missing after telling me he was going to kill himself. MN kept me going then.

[pointydog]

Yes, that will always be a risk on an internet forum and that can't be changed.

There is a mantal health topic on this forum.

[Slubberdegullion]

Well poor old DH had to talk about this all through chille con carne as well (poor man).

He has changed my mind (as have other posters here) on my the delete the thread stance.

As others have said, if you really are on the point of commiting suicide it is better to talk to anybody rather than nobody. he said the basic ABC of suicide prevention is "keep them talking". So in as much as we are not qualified, mn is at the very least good at the talking bit.

however

If someone is acutely unwell (physically or mentally) then it MUST be stressed very firmly that they should really be seeking advice and help from trained professionals. i don't think the little disclaimer bit at the top of the health threads is enough.

I'm somewhat embarrassed to mention Tickers, but you know on some 'other' sites when someone posts every single post they make has some revolting flashing or inane comment on the bottom. I wonder on threads such as these (and appropriate health ones) if the moderator could apply a ticker to each post, something like

Please contact the Samaritans on....
or your GP

something like that.

So that every post (regardless of its content) also stressed the importance of seeking help at a more appropriate source.

[TotalChaos]

I agree with Cod. I think there is the danger that these threads may lull somebody who has, say, taken an overdose and posted, into a false sense of security that someone will definitely be able to track them down and sort out RL help. The Samaritans at least have training in dealing with people in despair, and A & E duty psychiatrist in assessing risk of suicide.

[expatinscotland]

The things is, and again, NO ONE has been able to address this, but believe it or not, these threads can have legal ramifications - for both the forum as a whole and particular posters involved in such threads - particularly if the OP does in fact go on to harm themselves.

And that does need to be addressed by MNHQ and may be why they have not been in a position to comment or clarify their stance on such threads.

Compassion and health issues aside, legally this may be a grey area and as such you tread a fine line and sad though it is, this does need to be taken into consideration.

And again, it's impossible to know what the OP's state is - as sadly, many people who are that ill are also abusing substances.

[IllegallyBrunette]

I read yesterdays thread and found it very uncomfortable reading for several reasons, but also felt very sorry for MNHQ who were constantly being asked every minute or so to update, like they were CNN or something.

[tiredemma]

Expat talks sense.

[Nagapie]

There is a big difference between 'Gee, I am feeling a bit down' to 'I want to end it all'... the first is an ask to lift a mood the second implies the decision has already been taken, talk me out of it...

It is unfair to ask nameless people to take up the mantle and be responsible for your mental health...

[IllegallyBrunette]

Agree totally with your last sentance Nagapie.
I have posted on the 'feeling depressed' boards, but never would I have put someone in a position where they felt like I was depending on them saying something to talk me around.

And before someone says 'yes but have you ever been suicidal', yes I have and I acted on it, on my own, without telling a soul until I got scared half way through a box of tablets and told my dad.

[expatinscotland]

There is nothing wrong with saying, 'Legally, these threads might not be a good idea'.

Especially as some of us remember that this thread was very nearly shut down by legal action.

[expatinscotland]

This site, I mean.

[Flamesparro]

My worry with these threads is a) the guilt if something did go wrong

b) trolls.

As a group, MN is very good at digging deep to support those in need. I worry about that attracting people.

I also think back to last year with one particular poster who had a hell of a lot of emotional support (to the point of it harming the people giving it iyswim), who then went on to "suicide" - the grief it caused the people who felt they were her friend and had failed her, whilst battling their own issues, was terrible. Then it became more apparent that it was sh*t.

I don't know what the answer is. For myself, MN has supported me when I have been low. But when I have been that low, I haven't said a word.

[expatinscotland]

it's a grey area, dittany. particularly if the person harms herself or does indeed take her life.

and, as such, the law is open to interpretation when it comes to websites, same as suicide sites, proana sites and sites involving certain fetishes.

so it really is something that needs to be addressed.

[Slubberdegullion]

expat you do talk a lot of sense. As you say this is a grey area..... good to talk about it though.

[expatinscotland]

I'm sure it's being discussed at MNHQ.

Someone else also pointed out how onus is put on MNHQ to track down such posters.

Many of these posts, however, occur late at night, and we all know this is a largely unmoderated forum and that many of the staff at HQ are mothers of young children themselves.

[TotalChaos]

Dittany - on previous occasions posters have posted that they have taken an overdose. So medical assessment of some sort would often be urgently needed with this type of thread. Yes, the mental health system is flawed, and yes it is not pleasant to turn up at A & E saying you feel suicidally depressed (which I have done). But a duty psychiatrist can at least assess whether someone having suicidal thoughts can be discharged or not, to then be buoyed by the caring support MN can offer (in conjunction with whatever treatments/medication/support by CMHT are appropriate).

[expatinscotland]

dittany, sites have been sued in court by family and loved ones for being irresponsible. they really have. it's already happened with proana sites.

so there are a number of different laws which may apply in a case of someone who does indeed harm herself or end her life.

it sounds ridiculous, but it can and does happen and will likely continue to do so as litigation increases.

and even if such litigation is dismissed, the press, damage and cost is not neglible.

again it is impossible to know the state of the OP and whether or not the individual in question has used or misused a substance, and so advice can be construed in a number of different ways.

[Slubberdegullion]

dittany, while I agree that the 'system' is often woefully inadequate and unsupportive for chronic health (inc mental health) problems, and that mn is a fantastic resource and support for those living with or caring for these condition.

I do think that in an acute life threatening emergency that those whose job it is to help people who are seriously physically or mentally unwell are better equipped to help than MN. I really do.

[expatinscotland]

and it's not an invalid argument, dittany, until a magistrate rules it as such.

it's perfectly possible for loved ones or family to put together a case that can and does have enough merit to be brought forth in a court AND/OR cause heaps of legal problems for MN's team before doing so.

we've already seen this happen in the past with a situation which some deemed just giving opinions and others saw as defamation of character.

[expatinscotland]

ever notice how all the lawyers never post on threads like this?

yeah, well, there's a reason for that.

[BeauLocks]

You are absolutely right expat.

[DaddyJ]

objectivity, if you are still following this thread
could you tell us what you would have done
if your thread had been deleted immediately after you started it?

Would you have taken the hint and gone to the Samaritans?