To think mumsnet should explain why Gaza threads keep getting deleted?

[ADpackage]

No explanation and nothings been said that was antisemetic or broke guidelines. I’d really like to know why whole discussions are being deleted on a globally important topic instead of individual posts being deleted. Some of us care deeply about this topic and would like to see it being discussed.

So what's your explanation for this? How has this mass censorship been orchestrated then?

I appreciated your point, I was just genuinely curious as to whether you were denying that censorship on this topic is a thing. I hadn’t made up my mind about what you think at all - hence asking you to clarify what it is that you think . But then it appeared from your response- although you didn’t answer directly - that that was what you were getting at by your comparison with other contexts (eg Sudan).

But anyway I have no desire to push you on it as you apparently found the question uncomfy and offensive.

Of course it's political. If you think dropping a fundraiser for Palestine into your local mums group chat isn't political then you really haven't been paying attention.

So start your own mums WhatsApp group that does allow the fundraising links. Not being able to post whatever you want on whatever platform you want isn't censorship.

I just find it offensive when people push an agenda at me while ignoring what I've already said.

No I don't think there's censorship in the UK. I think people can and do talk freely about the situation in Gaza whether they know anything about it or not. In my experience commenting is often turned off under such articles because they rapidly descend into a cesspit of anti-Semitism - one of the more acceptable types of race hatred - and, like Mumsnet, nobody wants to have to deal with that.

It shouldn’t be seen as any more “political” - and therefore necessary to censor - than any other charity fundraiser for an international aid organisation. MSF don’t take sides in conflict- they deliver aid where-ever it is needed by people who are suffering. Whoever those people are, whatever their race, religion, nationality. The fact that it was viewed as “political”- dangerous and needing to be censored - because in this case they were delivering aid to Palestinian people is exactly the point.

I wasn’t “pushing an agenda” , I asked you a perfectly reasonable question in response to a point you made. You suggested that pp believed there was censorship due to latent antisemitism. However, she also referenced evidence of censorship (eg comments unprecedentedly being turned off on all media on this topic ) so I was wondering whether you accepted this.

Appreciate that you have answered.

It's political because the far left seem to have made it their rabid obsession, determined to police everyone into the 'correct' opinions and because it attracts antisemitism and all sorts of offensive batshittery. Any local mums group would be nervous.

In what sense is the turning off of comments "evidence of censorship"?

The fact that you are here now, on a social media platform, claiming to be censored, stopped from talking about Gaza, makes the whole concept ridiculous.

In my view, your agenda is to deny Jews the right to describe our lived experience while claiming censorship of the very thing you're currently publicly discussing and which is never away from the news, general and social media.

Please tell me how posting a fundraiser for MSF in Palestine is “policing everyone into the correct opinions” and “attracts antisemitism and batshittery”, yet posting a fundraiser for MSF in Ukraine is just fine?

I don't think people have recently vandalised British military planes in the cause of 'Ukraine Action' or caused a furore at Glastonbury by calling for the death of the Russian army. And if you don't know why the comments are turned off on news articles about Gaza then perhaps you should pop over to twitter where you can see the sorts of comments that newspapers rightly don't want appearing on their websites.

You might think 'Oh I'm just dropping a neutral fundraiser into my local mums group chat' but a lot of people are thinking 'oh no, here we fucking go' and would be very relieved to see it deleted before it all kicks off.

In what sense is the turning off of comments "evidence of censorship"?

Umm. It’s literally removing people’s ability to discuss the issue and share their opinion as is allowed on almost every other topic.

The fact that you are here now, on a social media platform, claiming to be censored, stopped from talking about Gaza, makes the whole concept ridiculous.

Im not suggesting it’s impossible to ever discuss Gaza on any media platform. But do I think there’s significant censorship of this topic and in many situations people have to be very careful about what they say in public. My friend lost her job for saying the wrong thing .

In my view, your agenda is to deny Jews the right to describe our lived experience

Well that’s a completely wild and unfounded interpretation of my motivations. I’m dismayed you feel that way, but it won’t stop me from discussing the horror that is unfolding in Palestine, or change my view on what I can clearly see- that there is a lot of work being done to shut that discussion down.

It would be really interesting to know what that "wrong thing" was.

change my view on what I can clearly see- that there is a lot of work being done to shut that discussion down.

Literally a whole section for discussion of this topic on MN.

"Help, help I'm being oppressed".

I didn’t say I was being oppressed !!
This certainly isn’t about me. I’m speaking from observation. Hence my question to that pp.

You claimed you were being censored for dropping a political hot potato into your local mums WhatsApp group.

I didn’t say I was being censored- it’s not personal and I didn’t take it personally. I was using it as an example of how this topic is censored in public, and the double standards that are applied about what is allowed to be said / shared/ posted on this topic , relative to others.

You don't seem to be acknowledging why comments are being turned off on newspaper articles, or why your comment was deleted from WhatsApp. It's not because of 'censorship' of valid discussion. Why were Kneecap not shown on the BBC at Glastonbury? Not because they might air valid political views, but because they might start waving the Hezbollah flag or shout 'up Hamas'. People don't want that on their websites, their screens, or their local mums WhatsApp groups.

And if someone starts a deliberately goady thread on the topic and starts blithering on about how Hamas didn't rape anyone on October 7th, then it is perfectly reasonable for MN to delete that thread and ban that poster. That's not censorship, that's moderation.

I understand that. But the point is that - because of that fear - valid discussion - or action (eg an humanitarian aid fundraiser) is being shut down. the topic is being censored (in my view- from what I see).

A pp noted this too, and was accused of unconscious antisemitism.
I was curious about this so asked the same pp whether she was suggesting that censorship wasn’t happening and I got accused of “having an agenda to stop Jewish people talking about their lived experience”! If I was a more neurotypical person that type of thing would surely make me want to keep my mouth shut next time..

Tbf I never saw her original post

Oh behave. As if you're the only ND person here.

You're trying to deny Jewish people a voice because I really patiently explained about unconscious anti-Semitism and how deeply it's engrained in our society and you completely ignored all that, told me there was "evidence" (not in any usual sense of the word clearly) of censorship because articles in the Guardian are closed to comment and pretended I'd not said anything about those comments being closed because of the bloody inevitable anti Jew rants that would follow.

And having your fundraiser deleted from a mum WhatsApp group really isn't censorship. Ten to one people just don't want to get involved because they're sick of people with no knowledge or understanding of complex situations hounding them and being ghoulish.

Surprise of the evening.

Perhaps you shouldn't be posting agreeing with her that this topic is being censored on MN then, when her thread was deleted with good reason, and if you want to discuss Gaza there's a whole section you can do it in.

Many would disagree with you that it is impossible to hold a discussion about Gaza, and in fact would like more airtime to be given to other topics which are currently being drowned out.

Please tell me where I claimed to be the only ND person here?

Your accusation that I am “trying to deny Jewish people a voice” is wild. The post exchange can be read above- I have no wish to repeat myself:

On the fundraiser- actually a whole load of people were disturbed it had been deleted and private messaged me to ask for details. And I wasn’t “seeking to get involved” in anything at all! I was sharing a fundraiser for an international aid organisation, delivering aid and medical services to people in crisis.

Again, if it had been any other conflict or humanitarian crisis in the world it would have been left no worries, but because it was Palestine it was immediately deleted by admin.