To think mumsnet should explain why Gaza threads keep getting deleted?

[ADpackage]

No explanation and nothings been said that was antisemetic or broke guidelines. I’d really like to know why whole discussions are being deleted on a globally important topic instead of individual posts being deleted. Some of us care deeply about this topic and would like to see it being discussed.

it may be because you are hugely partisan and bigoted? 🤷🏼

How can you post if your account has been deactivated? That doesn't make sense. Anyway your threads were deleted because you were promoting antisemitic hate.

I guess they opened another account just to say that and flounce off.

Jewish people don't say "you're not allowed to criticise Israel or its army as it's viewed....as anti semitic. We don't believe that to be the case. We can be as critical as anyone else. So who is telling you you're "not allowed "? I want an answer from you about that, otherwise guess what? You're using lies to spread misinformation and play the silenced victim. Why do you want to be a victim?

Both sides have done wrong. I have no skin in it.

Once you start saying genocide, Oct 7th being downplayed, ethnic genocide being coined, from the river to the sea etc - it’s no longer a discussion it’s anti Israel and usually antisemetic in context.

Mumsnet are having to navigate a difficult line as Hamas are proscribed terrorists by the U.K. too. They’ve had to do this around a lot of subjects including the ongoing trans debate. Moderation is a tough gig.

You're pretty silent on other people's plights aren't you? What is it about this particular conflict above all others that has you so exercised?

It's not even that. I wonder what people think would happen to Israel if the IDF was dismantled? It seems to me that when people are joining in with these silly chants, they either haven't engaged their brain or they'd be very happy to see what would happen to the Jews of Israel within a few short days if they were no longer able to defend themselves?

Members of the IDF have behaved appallingly. Of course they have. Military forces under extreme leaders are prone to do that. But that doesn't mean it's not anti semitic to call for an end to Israel's army or that IDF members are innately evil.

Incidentally, at the end of June, six IDF soldiers were burnt to death in their tank after a Hamas fighter ran up and threw a grenade in. They didn't stand a chance. Not one of them was over the age of 21 years old. Where is the condemnation of that? A conscientious objector in Israel said there are two sides but they're not Israeli v Palestinian. They're those on the side of peace v those on the side of violence. People should consider their position before indulging in moral grandstanding.

Where are you getting your stats from? Just throwing out numbers isn't going to convince anybody - no matter which side of the argument you are on.

Furthermore, it's unclear what you are trying to achieve by these kinds of posts: berating people generally isn't an effective way of trying to get people to agree with you - indeed it's more likely to alienate them (from you in particular - the vast majority of people are absolutely shocked and appalled by the terrible attacks and filmed gRapes that took place during and after the music festival/October 7. And they are also shocked and appalled by the massive war and suffering that has broken out since. So what exactly are you hoping to achieve? Bearing in mind that we can't even get our own government to behave in a rational manner, so what you actually think the people who post on MN can do to cause a peace that a succession of world leaders, religious leaders, multinationals etc etc haven't been able to achieve?

Mumsnet is a privately run organisation: they can remove posts for any reason they wish. If you don't like it go post somewhere else, or set up your own podcast or YouTube channel or whatever else you want to do to tell people what they already know.

You don’t do the same for Islamophobia

I think it’s very easy to criticise from the comfort of a uk armchair. Israel is small. This is happening around them. It isn’t a fight they are sending their dc away to fight- it is their doorstep. Those young men in that tank were just down the road. The youngsters at the festival were at home. As a PP says, without the IDF Israel ceases to exist and every one of them is dead. It’s not a clean war fought on a battlefield somewhere.

It’s reminiscent of Vietnam, in some ways.

Like me, the OP is probably horrified regarding this particular conflict because:

1. The citizens of Gaza can't flee from the conflict like other war zones because the Israeli government controls all exit points (just as it did before the war) and has beseiged the area since.
2. No journalists are allowed in to verify both sides' actions.
3. The Israeli government government has killed approaching 60,000 people, therefore inflicting a disproportionate level of violence on innocent civilians.
4. It has actively targeted hospitals and areas where the population fled to 'safety'. Therefore terrorising the whole population as nowhere is now safe.
5. The Israeli government's ultra right wing government members openly stated their aim to starve the Gazan population and then carried it out.
6. They have limited aid into Gaza and made the collection of the aid by starving people into a shooting and shelling gallery. What a choice starve or risk being killed when going to collect food!
7. All this while western governments, including the UK, do nothing tangible to stop the relentless slaughter, often of whole families, whilst stating "we support the right of Israel to defend itself" and we are "staunch allies of Israel. Israel is no longer defending itself, but seeking the decimation of the Palestinian society in Gaza.
8. When the Gazan people can cannot defend themselves from the massive repercussions of what a faction did on 7th October to Israel, it is looking every day like shooting fish in a fish bowl.

This is why the Gazan's plight affects us so much. The sheer, wanton, destruction of a people and their land, all while the world watches on in horror at the actions of the Israeli government, who shout "you are being anti-semitic" when told they are committing war crimes.

The fact that hardly any news items about the Israeli government's actions in Gaza and in the West Bank are open for comments, even the Guardian of all places, says something. So Mumsnet is one of the few places where we can work through with others our horror about the appalling situation, on a popular part of Mumsnet and not be hidden in the background.

@Flippityflopflip do you agree with the OP that Hamas didn't rape anyone on October 7th? Because that's what you're rushing to defend here.

It’s not apathy. It’s an acknowledgment that the situation is incredibly complex and that there is no civilised discussion to be had with people on both sides of the argument holding very entrenched views.

Disgusting comment to make. I saw somebody else say it on - yet another -Gaza thread. Straight out of the Owen Jones book of gaslighting.

These threads always go the same way: OP opens the discussion with faux naivety. Then the pile òn begins, the Jewish community is made to feel like shit and out come the usual platitudes, which always target Israel's right to existence. No, don't anyone come at me with what's been said repeatedly because I'm only interested in supporting a group of people, who have it from all directions. The CITME board exists for anything else related to Gaza.

You are referring to something I haven't commented on.

I am talking about the right to discuss a particular war/news event and the reasons why.

Hmmm.

But most people are not as black-and-white. For example I think the Israeli government and IDF have gone too far with the massacre of Palestinians. However, I completely support Israel‘s right to exist. I live in the most Jewish borough of London, so we and the kids have plenty of Jewish friends, I have a good friend who has done Aliyah who recently sent me photos of his bomb shelter (there was no toilet, that surprised me..). I am not antisemitic even though I hate what Israel is now doing.

There are many people like me who feel sick at what Hamas did on October 7 and feel devastated for all those young people and their families and the hostages. We also are brokenhearted by the images of what is happening to the kids in Gaza. And we also think Israel should exist. I feel like the moderate voices just get lost and people focus on the extreme ends. It’s frustrating.

What does that mean?

I don't believe anybody has the right to evaluate whether antisemitism is taking place - except Jewish people and Mumsnet.

The OP is denying the repeated rapes and sexual violence perpetrated against women and girls on 7th July? That is extremely shocking.

This is the problem. It’s so damn frustrating.

If someone criticised Hamas’ actions on Oct 7th and then a Muslim person called them Islamophobic just based on that, I would think that was ridiculous. I wouldn’t say that they were correct in that accusation. Would you automatically say they were right to say that as they are Muslim??

I'm not getting into that discussion.

That doesn't answer my question though, since I've never said the conflict isn't horrific.

Gang rape of women until they're unconscious, followed by the insertion of handwritten, plastic wrapped notes into their wombs, notes which read "this is to ensure no babies of your ethnicity are ever born again" is also horrific. Where are the weekly protests? The thousands of threads? The accusations that you can't say anything without being accused of racism?