Probably been said before, but an area just for Trans issues?

[DucklingSwimmingInstructress]

Could there be an area just for trans issues please?

Whatever one thinks of it, there are so so many threads on it and with the recent court ruling, at least some of this issue is now going to be decided.

This issue is unfortunately a major societal one now, but the Supreme Court ruling has been made, and the immediate reactions have taken place.

There are so many threads on it. It's taking over and it's hard to escape the conclusion that some of the threads are started, or kept high up on the front pages of various sections, by trans rights activists who are not taking the Supreme Court ruling with grace. It's playing into the hands of people who frankly seem to be posting with their own agenda and it's not always one of goodwill or genuine discourse.

Please could we at least have a section where the multiple, often repeated, threads this issue can go? It's time for that now.

No. The very few that don’t have very similar beliefs to the majority don’t tend to stay long as the environment is too hostile.

I don’t agree it’s an echo chamber. I said quite clearly that this is the nature of many online spaces. And yes I’ve seen all manner of hobby/special interest groups act in the way described.

Again, that’s the nature of established communities on the internet. Other communities actually prevent people posting and ban them if they don’t toe the party line, not just disagree with them.

No the reason they don't stay long is because they lack the ability to argue and they flee with their tails between their legs.

Also that.

Why do you think that one of the mantras of TRAs for so long was “no debate”? Why do you think no trans advocacy group made submissions to the Supreme Court, and why the submissions made by the Scottish Government and Amnesty failed?

If the ideology you espouse is a house of cards built on sand, it collapses pretty quickly.

That’s why they don’t stay too long.

"That’s not what an echo chamber is, though. This is a definition from Oxford Languages: ‘an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered’."
"I’d think it would be particularly specific to topics like ideologies, politics and religion - things centred around our ideas of identity and our in- and out- groups."

"It isn’t though."
"FWR is not a “toxic echo chamber”"

"So do you think then a board dedicated to discussing lawnmowers can be an echo chamber?"

"Yes."

"At least you do agree FWR is an echo chamber."

Is that poster pretending to believe that someone agreed with them when they clearly didn't? I can't make sense of it otherwise.

Yes it appears that poster is.

By saying, “And pretty much every subreddit or Facebook group. It’s the nature of much of social media,” I felt Eresh was tacitly agreeing that FWR was also part of these groups. Particularly when she said that the lawnmower forum could also be an echo chamber, I didn’t possibly think FWR would be special enough to stand alone.

But of course it does.

As pp said FWR does not even meet your own definition of an echo chamber so I’m not sure why you are continuing to claim that I said something I didn’t.

The salient point is that if FWR is an echo chamber it’s because of the posters who wanted women’s rights to be shoved away in a corner where they can be hidden and ignored.

FWR didn’t ask for this.

So are you saying it is or it isn’t?

Word games &
facts not feelings (👀 an alt right position or a good idea)

Couleur · Yesterday 13:00

Skepticalsausage · Yesterday 07:20
You’ve clearly never encountered the fights that break out on FWR even between GC women, let alone with TRAs who regularly post there.
Show quote history
Well, not so. I’ve been part of a fair few and even (ahem) started them.

A fact stated in reply to an assumption by @Skepticalsausage (👋just a fyi as I name drop)

English language:

is V can

"That’s not what an echo chamber is, though. This is a definition from Oxford Languages: ‘an environment in which a person encounters only beliefs or opinions that coincide with their own, so that their existing views are reinforced and alternative ideas are not considered’."

So its testable

1. community
2. only 1 ideology
3. no "outsiders" with other ideology allowed

"It isn’t though."
"FWR is not a “toxic echo chamber”"

So test in action

1. community✅️
2. only 1 ideology❌️
3. outsider with other ideology not allowed ❌️ ( cheat sheet below)

"So do you think then a board dedicated to discussing lawnmowers can be an echo chamber?"

So test in action needs a decision tree as not all community are the same:

1. community✅️
2. only 1 ideology if yes go to 3a ✅️ if no go to 3b ❌️
3. no "outsiders"

"Yes."

Factual as it can be or it may not be

"At least you do agree FWR is an echo chamber."

Reliable data and usage?
FWR is not the single lawnmowees(?) Board.

Is Couleur active on FWR
Has Couleur an alternative view to other posters on FWR
Has Couleur continued to post on FWR about the view point
Has Couleur robustly interact with other posters who hold alternative view points

Would Couleur own disclosures prove that FWR is the definition of echo chamber per the definition from Oxford Languages?
Or not?

And for the record I think "women" sheep 🐑are the best value and ecofriendly lawnmower option 💅

I don’t think it is. You clearly do. We can disagree on that point. But if it is, it isn’t the fault or the creation of the women of FWR, who didn’t ask for it and never wanted it.

We are very happy to discuss with all good-faith posters.

I can't think of one statement I could write that I could guarantee that all posters to FWR would agree on. Maybe something vague like 'physical sex is in some way related to being a man or a woman in our society'.

Or 'single-sex spaces should exist', but we do have trans posters who I'm not sure would be completely on board or agree with how this was practically carried out.

I can think of loads of topics off the top of my head that have provoked a range of differing opinions recently.

This is so amusing - all the verbal acrobatics

You think it’s funny that women’s a girls have to do all this because some men have decided to appropriate our words and our spaces? You think that’s a joke?

Why?

I could say the same about your attempts to put words into posters’ mouths @Couleur- no one says you can’t call it an echo chamber, other posters simply disagree.

I laughed so much and out loud when the Scottish Government decided to do verbal acrobatics in legislation for the people they would train and allow provide key evidence in rape and sexual assault trials.

I found it funny that they were Ok in hiring someone who would carry out a medical exam on a person of the other sex when that person asked for someone of the same sex.

I found it funny that they were Ok creating evidence collection methods from the external or internal of a persons body when the employee had no consent just to prove a prior sexual assault happened.

I also found it funny that is never occured to the Allies of Right that no decent person would think they as an employee should be given that right and that any who demanded that as a right should never be in court process unless as a named Accused (defendant)

Little legal details like the meaning of "sex" and "woman" should be amusing.

OK, good point things need to be simplifed. I agree with you.
We could drop the words transwomen and transman tomorrow and it wouldn't matter as it relates to something made up. Like the name of a new cartoon series.
Pronouns could be used as per original intent. No more verbal acrobatics!

They may not understand or realise but your daughters’ (and all women’s) rights ARE diminished by allowing men to identify into the category of woman. They might find the FWR board informative.

Plenty of trans activists frequent the feminist boards to mansplain, insult and berate us for wanting to talk about our rights. Clearly not an echo chamber.

I would say that this typical kind of pushback (this time from Djaki’) is a great example of this: “You think it’s funny that women’s a girls have to do all this because some men have decided to appropriate our words and our spaces? You think that’s a joke?”

Obviously, I said no such thing and implying so is irritating.

Couleur, if you don't like word games, can you give an example of something that people on FWR largely think (and would agree that it's a position they hold), that you believe to be wrong, and say why - what you think differently - without word games?

Oddly, I agree with much of their positions. It’s why I read FWR in the first place. I don’t agree with the battleground nature of the board and the insidious creep towards the right of politics, but that’s about all.