FWR

[MarsScarlet]

FYI: I've name changed for this to avoid a pile-on.

This post is about the overwhelming negativity and hostility with the FWR board that new posters and posters with a differing viewpoint face if they attempt to use the board.

There is a persistent group within the board that are, to put it simply, hateful towards others. Despite posting there on and off for more than 4 years, I have never felt welcome, despite not holding any particular extreme views or being abusive to others. Without exception, I am accused of being another poster, or a man, a TRA, or some kind of paid activist. This occurs again and again until I leave a thread in frustration.

I’ve seen this happen to many other new posters. Few return. Why would they? Such an acidic atmosphere doesn’t encourage healthy discussion. I’d just like to discuss women’s rights, but this board makes discussion impossible.

I’m not exactly sure what the answer is, except for @MNHQ to request the board to tone down the rhetoric a bit and back off on any new names they may see on the board. Let people engage with you rather than actively drive them away.

the train to PARD, but the OP has toddled off and abandoned transport. lol

I go by the revolutionary concept of not being particularly bothered what random people online think about me.

Explain the transphobic rhetoric. Explain the ‘bigoted things’.

You. Can’t.

Just dish out shite ‘the grown ups are talking’ cringe non-insults while displaying the debating skills of a broom.

Ah, yes, the tired martyr complex. Claiming you're silenced while spouting the same talking points we’ve all heard a thousand times. "Nuanced discussion"? Please. What you really mean is, "I want to regurgitate transphobic rhetoric without being called out for it."

So - it's ok for the Good People to be rude and hostile while they do their tone policing. What a complete surprise.

Oh, I can explain it. But let’s not pretend you’re here for an actual explanation. You’re not engaging in good faith - you’re deflecting with snide remarks to avoid addressing the core issue. But ok fine, let’s spell it out (again):

When you suggest trans women shouldn’t have access to women’s spaces, you’re denying their identity and reducing them to some imagined "threat." That’s transphobic.

When you lump all trans women into a category of "males" invading sports or spaces, you’re promoting harmful stereotypes. That’s bigotry.

When you throw around terms like "ideology" to describe basic human rights and dignity, it’s dehumanising.

You might call this "shite," but it’s a factual breakdown of the harm in your arguments. Dismissing it as “broom-level debating” doesn’t make you clever - it just proves you have no interest in meaningful dialogue, only in playing the victim when people challenge your prejudice.

My primary reason for engaging with FWR is to campaign for better rights for women. It's depressing enough that I'm still doing this nearly 40 years on from my teenage years without being told I'm hostile, bigoted, crazy or that I just don't understand.

I want women to be treated as humans, not second class citizens or factory rejects. I want safe spaces, education, and healthcare that meets our needs and respects our dignity and our agency. I want women to succeed in all areas of life; at work, in sport, in creativity and hobbies and to be supported, not penalised for having children.

FWR allows me to engage with people who also want these things and campaign together to make a difference. By completing consultations, engaging with politicians and contributing to important legal cases I have been able to play my part in getting important stuff done. No debate is no longer an option.

So what is it that those complaining about FWR really don't like? Don't you want better rights for women? Safeguards for children or open and honest debate?

It’s fascinating how you frame your arguments as if your fight for women’s rights exists in a vacuum, untouched by the harmful rhetoric that spills out of spaces like FWR. No one is complaining about the desire for better rights for women, or safeguards for children - we’re pushing back against the way you use those goals as a smokescreen for excluding and marginalising others.

You claim to want “open and honest debate,” but where’s the honesty in pretending trans inclusion erases women’s rights? Where’s the openness when your version of “safe spaces” inherently excludes some of the most vulnerable women?

FWR and similar spaces could be powerful platforms for genuine advocacy, but instead, they often centre fear-mongering and outdated stereotypes. That’s what people are pushing back against - not the idea of rights for women, but the idea that those rights can only come at the expense of trans people.

So yes, we do want safeguards for children and better rights for women. We just reject the idea that achieving those things requires scapegoating a marginalised group and undermining their dignity in the process.

I've said my bit and there is no hope for discussion on this thread, so I hope you all have a productive day.

My favourite is the wide eyed "What transphobia? There's no transphobia here! I hope you are reporting any transphobia you see" when there are pages and pages of calling trans women things like male bad actors and men in dresses.

Good to see the pack mentality is alive and well.

And there you have what?

No one is interested in your "bit" @blownawaybyit

You just spouted some misogyny and aren't going to hang around to hear it challenged. Slow hand clap.

Because I'm campaigning for women's rights. Not men's rights.

I have nothing against males, I just don't include them in my feminism.

Another favourite is when you say something completely reasonable and they respond with "so what you're saying is you hate women"

Honestly you couldn't make it up.

but where’s the honesty in pretending trans inclusion erases women’s rights?

It does in many circumstances. That you can't see it, is your blindness.

Pretending there is no conflict of rights is very 2017.

“excluding and marginalising others”. Yes that is what this thread is about isn’t it?

@blownawaybyit if you want to have a discussion, let’s do it. Head over to FWR and let’s discuss. Or are you just going to accuse us all of being bigoted and such bad faith actors that you’ll refuse to actually discuss it with us at all?

Said much more pithily than me 👏

The classic "misogyny" accusation, paired with a vague dismissal. Conveniently vague, too - no examples, no substance, just a drive-by insult to make yourself feel superior.

Misogyny? Pointing out how your rhetoric excludes and marginalises trans women doesn’t make me a misogynist. It makes me someone who believes in equality and dignity for all women, not just the ones who fit your narrow definition.

You’re not shutting down “misogyny.” You’re shutting down anyone who challenges your outdated, exclusionary worldview. And that’s not the flex you think it is, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Have a great day everyone. Do something positive.

Pretending that women's rights and feelings are inferior to men's is in fact "classic misogyny".

Men aren’t women, even if they say so. Smearing women who won’t go along with it is pretty damn misogynistic.

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Me neither 🤷‍♀️

Conveniently vague, too - no examples, no substance, just a drive-by insult to make yourself feel superior.

The DARVO is astounding. You literally came just to do drive by insults.

When you start with ‘shh the grown ups are talking you lose the right to criticise others. I’ll persevere though. I’m glad you’ve attempted to explain. However -

Point 1. I’m not denying their identity, they exist and should exist free of discrimination - based on the humans rights they already hold which are currently the same as everyone else FYI, but the fact of the matter is they aren’t women. Just because a man feels differently doesn’t give them that right to go into spaces for women. Threat or no threat. I know plenty of males who aren’t a threat to women, they shouldn’t go in there either. Women can’t tell the difference between genuine trans women who wish no harm and males who are bad actors, based on regressive stereotypical dress, so all have to stay out. Not transphobia even though you have attempted to redefine what that is.

Explain why you think a female rape victim should have to sit in a rape counselling session with a biological male regardless of how they identify?

Point 2. Biological males have a physiological advantage over women when it comes to sport. That’s why they are sex segregated. Same as point 1. Men in women’s sports is a threat.

Explain why you think considering this advantage males should be allowed to take part in women’s sports?

It is an ideology. Like religion. It’s based on a belief system and not on scientific fact, which is humans can’t change sex. Anyone can believe anything about themselves. They however, and you, can’t compel me to believe in something that is inherently untrue. Having a biological man stand in front of me and say I’m a woman you must believe it too or else me and all my supporters are going to call you a transphobe and a bigot isn’t washing anymore. I honestly don’t give a fuck.

Some are. Plenty of examples of shite males identifying as a woman (whatever that means, maybe you can be the first to actually explain what this means). How does one tell the difference? Do enlighten us.

None of the things you have said make any sense at all UNLESS you redefine the word woman to include some men.

You don’t get to do that. When people try and redefine my word, I’m going to fight against it.

My basic rights and dignity include not having to get undressed in front of men, like the two NHS cases going through the courts at the moment.