LGBT children board title

[ArabellaScott]

Given that the Cass Review says social transitioning is not a neutral act, and refers to 'gender incongruent' or 'gender questioning' children, the use of 'trans children' looks startlingly out of date and incorrect on Mumsnet.

The board should be renamed 'LGB and gender questioning children' to better reflect best practice.

The new school guidelines likewise use 'gender incongruent' and 'gender questioning' and not ever 'trans' when referring to children.

Exactly, 'correcting' a parent who is struggling with something, which would be the reason for them posting, is seen as support.

It's not.

This is the most potent argument for the change, though the real-life experiences people add in support are useful too. Safeguarding best practice should always be the guide when dealing with children and young people.

There are groups for gay men, lesbians and bisexual people, but stripping the T away from LGBT groups is an overtly anti-trans political decision which only the LGB Alliance and their allies supports, because they believe being transgender is an ideology.

If you want the people who this board was set up
to help not to post, this name change is the way to do it.

I agree but would there be a board for parents whose children are no longer gender questioning and are trans?

Could it be called LGBT and Gender Questioning? Or start a separate bored for those who are questioning?

Yes, this is a very good point. I'm pretty sure MN wouldn't just make this change on the basis of posts here. They will treat the thread as a prompt to consider what is best practice now, and perhaps reach out for advice from relevant organisations.

I agree with the suggestion.

a horrible world view which fundamentally wants trans people to live in misery.
Why would you say that? Why would you believe it? Think about it for a second. Why on earth would anyone want that?

Except the only lesbian groups I know have had to go underground because of all the pressure to be mixed sex.

I also agree that the LGBT children board should be split in two and that "gender questioning children" is a far more helpful and open term than "trans children".

I agree with OP

Indeed there are groups for lesbians, for example, and their existence is continually threatened and harassed by the "T". They are not acccorded the respect that "T" groups are, at all.

I think the most important thing is to start with the purpose of the board, which is to provide support to parents of children struggling with sexuality and/or gender.

We know a lot of gender questioning girls in particular grow up to be lesbians. Children also are often confused in general and not clear if it's about sexuality or gender.

For that reason I think splitting the board would be unhelpful. I think a rename would be better- something like "Parents of LGB and gender questioning children" or "Support for children questioning sexuality and/or gender".

Maybe asking parents who use that board to comment would be helpful?

Anyway, this isn't about adults and their groups, it's about children, and the best safeguarding practice for supporting gender questioning children. The needs of adults are irrelevant.

Perhaps we should have sexuality questioning children, too?

But this is blatantly homophobic, assuming that boys like girls and boys like girls, and that anyone who is gender non-conforming is actually the opposite sex. (Not meaning you are homophobic, more that the premise of them being lumped together is, hope that makes sense!).

Considering that many so called trans children are gay and autistic this should surely highlight the vulnerability of the LGB group, and separating them from the inevitable TQ would be a good step to reversing the common assumption that they are in some way the same.

It would also be a positive step to follow the science, as laid out in the Cass review, ahead of the time when law suits will pile in.

Removed my post as it may have been interpreted as inflammatory, and that’s not in the spirit of this thread 😊

There are groups for gay men, lesbians and bisexual people

Do you have a link to any mainstream lesbian groups?
All the ones local to me are open to TW, who I have no interest in, and there’s pressure to accept them as literal women which I can’t do.

Since a child questioning their sexuality doesn't have anything to do with a possible medical pathway you're talking about apples and oranges.

We all have skin in the game. We all want what's best for children.

Current guidance is very clear that social transitioning is not a neutral act, and that children cannot acquire gender recognition certificates, so should therefore not be referred to as trans. This is about making sure we keep all options open, including retreat, for children and young people who may be exploring gender.

One of the saddest people I know is my now adult DNiece, another autistic same-sex attracted female, who was affirmed in her trans-identity in her early teens. She was part of a close friendship group at school who all socially transitioned at the same time. School embraced this, and there was even a 'fun' piece in the local paper. This is how what might otherwise be a transient, 'questioning' curiosity becomes fixed as a trans identity. DNiece periodically wobbled, back-pedalled, tried they/themming for a while but was effectively treated like a splitter. The girls' supportive families, DB and DSil included, went on to seek referral to a gender identity clinic where further affirmation ironed out DNiece's reservations, and paved the way to approval for hormone treatment and, most recently, extensive surgery. In her twenties, she is now effectively rendered disabled by the effects of the medical interventions her body has endured. And still, crucially, 'questioning'. And sad.

I agree, it sets a poor child safeguarding example for mumsnet to still be classifying children as "trans". I also agree that separate topics for sexual orientation and gender identity is an excellent idea. Especially for those girls who may be lesbian and need protecting from the idea that there is something wrong with breasts and periods.

I also think there should be two boards; 'LGB' and 'gender questioning/incongruent'.

They are completely different things with different challenges and political weight and should not be force teamed together!

I agree that the term 'trans' is misleading, particularly in children.

Unfortunately the use of Trans for Kids changed with WPATH making up the concept of 'Trans Kids' in their 'Standard of Care' after the man who used them to castrate rapists in prisons was made head of WPATH.

It had been tested mainly on butch girls whose parents didn't want a lesbian daughter. Trying to find out historial information enough to make a judgement is incredibly difficult.

Because Testosterone is so highly potent and the effects on the girls was so observable, they rolled it out across the board.

Until then, even WPATH didnt accept that the concept should be used with kids, infact they were explicit in their 'Standard of Care' Version 5.

Version 5 in 1998 said that under 18s must not be treated.

A timely post of the Puberty Blocker thread should anyone be interested in the background of all of this.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5057269-5057269-puberty-blockers-how-exactly-did-we-get-here?reply=134629481

There is no such thing as a Trans Kid. It is a made up concept that has been designed to justify men who transition later in life even though many of them are happy to have done so as they love their own children.

Yes, agree with this.

I agree that, in light of the Cass Review there should be:

1. A change of terminology to a more responsible 'gender questioning' or similar, and
2. Two threads, one for LGB children and the other for children questioning their 'gender' identity.