LGBT children board title

[ArabellaScott]

Given that the Cass Review says social transitioning is not a neutral act, and refers to 'gender incongruent' or 'gender questioning' children, the use of 'trans children' looks startlingly out of date and incorrect on Mumsnet.

The board should be renamed 'LGB and gender questioning children' to better reflect best practice.

The new school guidelines likewise use 'gender incongruent' and 'gender questioning' and not ever 'trans' when referring to children.

I agree with there being two boards, one named LGB children and one named gender questioning children.

That is so sad. And clearly demonstrates that 'trans' is a locked box out of which it is forbidden to climb.

The detrans threads on Reddit contain so many similar stories of damaged bodies and changed minds.

I think this may yet be the medical scandal of the century. Poor kids.

What would be the benefits to parents of having the boards split in that way?
It feels like a political move to signal something rather than a move that's actually going to support parents looking for help.

I'd be concerned that parents of lesbian teenagers in particular might not find the support and information they need if they were directed to a "gender identity" board first.

We already have the Sex and Gender board for political debates around safeguarding etc so I feel it's important to keep the other board for support to parents.

An excellent suggestion. I've every confidence that MNHQ will do what's best in the light of the all the new evidence and guidance, especially the reminder that socially transitioning children is not a neutral act. As a site for parents, safeguarding children should be central to everything. It's long overdue to get rid of the mythical "trans child" label and call these children what they are - gender questioning.

Met my H in the late 80s and he fairly quickly came out to me as transvestite. No suggestion at all at the time of transsexuality (the word used at the time). As a 20 something it did not occur to me at the time to link it with a desire to actually become a woman. That just wasn't something I knew anything about as it was very underground and hidden at the time. There was no internet and just a few very secretive mail order shops where men could buy female clothes that fitted them, who also offered mailing lists with information about support groups. A whole hidden world most people knew nothing about!

I also went to a pretty modern, progressive university at the time and we had GaySoc, so not even the LGB distinction. Trans anything just wasn't something anyone talked about.

also went to a pretty modern, progressive university at the time and we had GaySoc, so not even the LGB distinction. Trans anything just wasn't something anyone talked about.

Exactly.

@CassieMaddox I think the benefit lies in there being a distinction: I'm a parent of a young autistic lesbian and were it not for my previous experience with close family -see above- I might not have been able to discern, when starting to look around for help with how best to support my child, that the L really is a world of difference away from the T and that sexual orientation is not synonymous with gender-questioning. This is generally not made clear at a 'first-point-of-enquiry' for parents venturing into LGBTQ+ spaces, looking for ways to support their children and young people. Instead, it is easy to have your mind slightly blown by the broad presentation of gender identities, a use of language that is often ambiguous to the uninitiated, and a subtle message that anything but affirmation will render a parent 'part of the problem'.

Separate boards would be supportive for parents like me whose child is same-sex attracted and whose gender identity is frequently questioned in LGBT spaces: it provides the assurance that it is possible to be 'just' gay.

It might also be helpful to parents who believe their DC may be gender-questioning or same-sex attracted, whose first port of call has not been MN but one of the more inclusive online LGTB spaces where aforementioned ambiguity prevails: being encouraged to question which of two distinct MN boards to access might prompt further reading and a broader understanding of the issues, thus enabling better support.

Well said @TheCentreCannotHold.

All the evidence from Cass and elsewhere is showing that it's children who are likely to be gay and lesbians who are being gaslit into believing their feelings and concerns are about them "being in the wrong body" rather than struggling with puberty and emerging sexuality.
Mumsnet is a fantastic resource for parents where they can explore issues with their children in anonymity and safety. To remove this "inappropriate for children" term and use the responsible language of Cass would be a small step for parents as they try to navigate this difficult issue with their mentally vulnerable children.

If you read a post from a struggling parent and choose to correct their language rather than offer advice and think that's being supportive, then you're sadly mistaken

Again, you can do both!

Another in agreement with OP, and also to 2 separate boards for parents of LGB children, and gender-questioning children.

Language matters.

@KellyMumsnet In a similar vein, could we have a board for mumsnetters who are themselves LGBT in addition to the board for gay kids?

This is a very sensible suggestion. I'm on board with it.

Many don't do both though.

I have seen many posts where op poses a specific question and the thread gets derailed with people asking about what toilet the child goes to, rather than helping, or just stating the child isn't trans and that's the end of it. It becomes such a mess they, more often than not, get removed.

If that's the language the parent is choosing to use about their own child's specific situation then it's just plain arrogant to tell them that they are wrong, and its so disheartnening to see parents reaching out for support and not getting it because people are policing the language they use about their own child.

If you take the Trans out of the title then you're taking away support for parents who need it to satisfy those who don't really need that support.

You're going to direct them to other sites because people will google 'Trans child' or similar, and that will take them to sites where there aren't a range of views.

This site is supposed to be about supporting parents, taking the Trans out of the title wouldn't be a supportive move.

Separate the boards, add 'gender questioning' to 'trans' as well, but it would be a massive mistake to take the Trans out of the title imo.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/lgbt_parents

This! And a whole 7 people agreeing before someone says 'but we all agree'

Thank you, don't know how I missed that!
As you were...

https://educationhub.blog.gov.uk/2023/12/19/gender-questioning-children-guidance-schools-colleges/

'In recent years, an increasing number of children have been questioning their gender. This is why we have published new guidance for teachers on how best to support these students in schools and colleges.

In England, children can’t obtain a Gender Recognition Certificate so their legal sex will always be the same as their biological sex. There is also no general duty that says schools and colleges must support a child to take steps that are part of ‘social transition’ – such as agreeing to change their name or pronouns.

This guidance is clear that schools and colleges have a duty to safeguard and promote the welfare of all children, which means that a cautious approach should be taken when responding to requests to social transition.'

If you can have lesbian, bisexual and gay children, you can certainly have trans children. And Cass isn’t saying trans children don’t exist, merely including all GNC children in their report.

Cass clearly says the "trans" isn't something you are, it's something you do. "Trans" should not exist outside of a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria and children should not be determining their own medical diagnoses. Children should not be taking steps to "transition", that is something adults do. Parents absolutely do need support if their child has gender dysphoria but let's not pretend that gender identity is a separate entity to gender dysphoria or (more commonly) a creation for the validation of AGPs.

I agree. LGB children and children who are gender questioning have entirely different needs, and there are issues with homosexuality by itself being a difficult and uncomfortable subject to those who believe that gender matters and sex is bigotry. People would be free to read and contribute to both boards after all, but also to have that particular focus.

Not sure if this point has already been made, but lots of the women posting for support in relation to their gender-questioning children come onto boards other than the LGBT children board and state that they are desperate to be a supporting presence for their child but cannot in good faith accept the framing of their child as trans.
A name change might make the LGBT children board more accessible to them. It would remove the implication that use of that board presupposes acceptance of the trans framing.

Yes that's an excellent point @ReadWithScepticism

That's a fair point, and why the suggestion of "trans and gender questioning children" is a valid.

Agreed. The best practice is quite clear. Many of us are working in fields where we are watching the catastrophic harm being done to LGB / autistic teens by trans ideology so it's totally appropriate to have separate boards OR at least use the correct terminology.