LGBT children board title

[ArabellaScott]

Given that the Cass Review says social transitioning is not a neutral act, and refers to 'gender incongruent' or 'gender questioning' children, the use of 'trans children' looks startlingly out of date and incorrect on Mumsnet.

The board should be renamed 'LGB and gender questioning children' to better reflect best practice.

The new school guidelines likewise use 'gender incongruent' and 'gender questioning' and not ever 'trans' when referring to children.

Agree

A vote for 2 boards. One LGB and the other gender-questioning, ideally. I don't mind if trans is used in the second title but I think whatever the NHS/Cass Report suggest as vocabulary is the best. It's been considered by experts not a bunch of experts in their personal anecdotes.

A strong vote against two boards. As a lesbian and a parent of a bisexual teen, we do not want LGB without the T. It smacks of the LGB alliance.

I have no problem with ‘gender questioning’ or ‘gender non-confirming’.

Or, we could recognise that that isn’t happening, except in the heads of a vocal minority. Gender reassignment surgery isn’t available to children.

Really? No teenager anywhere has had a gender-affirming mastectomy? Puberty blockers have no effect on fertility?

Prevalence of Gender-Affirming Surgical Procedures Among Minors and Adults in the US

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2820437

The age requirement for gender reassignment surgery is 16 in Scotland and 18 in the UK. Many would argue, and Cass data supports, that giving hormone blockers to minors and/or affirming their 'gender identity' puts them on a surgical intervention pathway.

And only four years ago people were banging the drum to allow children to consent to medical procedures. You've got your head in the sand if you think this isn't (or wasn't) a thing, and still would be a thing if certain persons got their way.
www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jan/05/high-court-to-decide-if-children-can-consent-to-gender-reassignment

It takes some serious false narrowing of focus to say ‘it isn’t happening’ because it isn’t happening in some countries but is obviously happening in other countries. How many children are acceptable to be harmed before it is acknowledged to be a current issue still?

Thanks @holiverterwist, I knew I’d seen that but couldn’t remember where.

https://unherd.com/newsroom/over-5000-us-children-have-undergone-transgender-surgeries/

'At least 5,747 children underwent gender transition surgeries in the US from 2019 to 2023, according to insurance data obtained by the medical watchdog group Do No Harm.'

And here in the UK:

https://www.thetimes.com/article/scottish-doctors-approved-breast-removal-for-51-trans-teenagers-qvkmz8r2c

'More than 50 transgender boys under the age of 18 have been approved for double mastectomies in Scotland'

(This has since changed, thank god, because of the Cass Report. NHS Scotland no longer refers under 18s for surgery for 'gender' issues.)

It's probably worth noting that the BBC also doesn't use 'trans children', except in quotation marks, as in this article:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68844119

The person quoted using 'trans children' there is an activist: Vic Valentine, of Scottish Trans and the Equality Network.

It's a partisan term, and should be avoided.

Yes, we shouldn't be transing children. Gender questioning is much more appropriate.

Well yes indeed. Transsexual is not the same thing as being gay/lesbian/bisexual.

Hi everyone and thank you for sharing your thoughts. While we understand why there might be concerns about the title, we're not minded to change it at this point.

The primary purpose of this board is to offer a space for parents to find shared experiences and support. It isn't intended to be a forum for debate, and we have previously removed posts that push conversations in that direction, as there are other places on site where that debate can and does take place. There’s a distinction between what might be considered best practice in educational or medical settings and what is useful in a parental support space. First, not everyone will recognise expert terminology, and it's important for the talkboard's name to be easily searchable on both Google and Mumsnet. Secondly, we want to avoid making language debates the focus of the board. If a parent refers to their child as trans, they should feel free to do so without being challenged by others who may have different views. Thanks again for raising it though and as ever we will keep a watching brief.

In that case, @BeckyAMumsnet , would it be possible to have an additional entirely separate board called something like "Families of gender-questioning people" for MNers who are desperately in need of a support board but who do not find the LGBT board appropriate for their family's needs.
Please could you look at the thread called How do you support other siblings when a teen decides they are trans? for masses of evidence from affected families that such a board is very desperately needed. At the moment, people who need this type of support - who are often dealing with very severe difficulties relating to autism, mental illness, and so on - are posting on the feminism board, which of course is largely for discussion rather than support, so that the supporting elements of relevant threads can get a little drowned by discussion

What about an additive approach, Becky? Adding 'gender questioning' to your 'LGBT' title would cover all bases, won't adversely affect searches, will encompass more people, and give parents a bit of a broader and more nuanced approach. Surely from the point of view of supporting parents that would be a better approach?

I think time will show the Mumsnet approach to be a lost opportunity.

disappointing but at the end of the day mumsnet is not an autonomous collective. And it could still be bad for business.

on the plus side they are pushing on VAGW.

Sorry Becky but this was a disappointing decision and as mentioned up thread a lost opportunity. Especially the additive approach would have helped.

A great many women on MN are VERY well informed on this topic through a mixture of lived experience and professional expertise. Many parents are not, until this topic lands literally on their doorstop. At this point they start researching and find themselves at sites with the most explicit and non-Cass bias. By adding 'gender questionning' it adds a whole new piece of language to search for which might lead to more balanced results.

I'm tempering my disappointment out of deference for Munsnet's general courage in allowing the whole issue to be discussed at all.

I agree 👍

Just revisiting this thread to post some more up to date analysis of gender- transition treatment or surgeries inflicted on minors in the States

*At least 14,000 kids got such interventions from 2019-2023
*Boston Children’s policy since 2018 has been to refer minors to endocrinology for such treatment after a since 2-hour assessment appointment.
*Since 2022, the WPATH policy is there is no age limit on any of this treatment.
*The youngest documented double mastectomy for gender dysphoria was on a 12 year old.

https://benryan.substack.com/p/at-least-14000-us-minors-have-received?r=7wxo1&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&triedRedirect=true

As puberty blockers have been stopped this week it is time to reconsider this thread please.