Why aren’t you banning the far-right agitators?

[GoldMedallist]

Deleting their posts but allowing them to keep inciting racial hatred under the same accounts is making the site unusable. Why should we keep reporting them if you’re not going to do anything meaningful about it?

They hold the same opinions that many of the posters on MN have expressed in the last few days and they have been written off as far right.

One group is causing violence, the other is peacefully protesting but they hold the same views towards what impact they believe immigration is having on the settled population- increase in crime, women feeing vulnerable, resources taken from taxpayers, the area becoming dirty and unhygienic.

Many MNrs have shared this view of their area and but they have been hounded and accused of being extremists.

In the diverse and democrat voting area of Brooklyn, similar views are expressed that have been on this very site. Yet I doubt they will be accused of being extremists

Twistybranch I don't know what you are trying to do here tbh, but I have seen with my own eyes some unequivocally far right posts here this week from posters who have often popped up from nowhere. Some even encouraging people to riot. This is why @GoldMedallist started this thread. If you don't think the far right target places like MN, you are naive.

MNHQ seem to have done a good of banning the far right agitators, thankfully.

I don't consider "brexit" far right.
I consider that many of the twats who agitated for the hardest of hard brexits were far right.

We were forced to "listen to their reasonable concerns"

Because they were the majority, you need to wake up at some point. I’m extremely pro EU, voted Lib Dem in the vain hope we will rejoin, but sticking your fingers in your ears and making out anyone who disagrees with you is a fringe lunatic with unreasonable concerns is what has lead to this entire mess.

(Brexit voters I mean not the far right)

Totally agree. In all the years I've been here I've never seen such a concerted effort of posting such far right and racist views. They are not genuine MNers... some bots, some agitators, some no doubt part of far right organisations. It's obvious.

For @twistybranch

www.thetimes.com/article/792380c2-44f5-45ce-8d5b-192b0e5ad739?shareToken=f83c06f41366e22c0fcdc76f444f19fe

"I consider that many of the twats who agitated for the hardest of hard brexits were far right."

I voted to leave the EU. I wanted a clean break from the EU. I didn't want to be tied to their rules or to be signed up to clauses about 'unfair competition' with the EU.

That isn't 'far right', it is simply implementing the result of the referendum - i.e. 'Do you wish to Leave or Remain in the EU?'

This is the problem with using the term 'far right'. Some people just throw it around and basically mean 'anything I don't like is far right' rather than the actual meaning of 'fascist'.

(By the way, fascism isn't actually right-wing. Somebody on the extreme right-wing would be a libertarian or anarchist, which is the polar opposite of fascist. Some people constantly conflate right-wing with fascism to the extent that the conservatives are 'far right')

With regards to the current unrest, I expect a lot of these rioters are fascists. Many will also be racist and antisemitic. Many, however, will actually claim to be anti-racists - the EDL claimed to be non-racist but was vehemently anti-islamic (Islam isn't a race). The fact that Islam hasn't been officially recognised as part of the Southport attack, appears to have been completely lost on them. This rioting appears to be a little more than a fun day out fighting the police and smashing up town centres.

Mumsnet needs to concentrate on banning the racists (rare), antisemites (seemingly everywhere) and fascists (rare) and their job would be a whole lot easier without people spuriously complaining about Brexit, conservative and Reform voters.

Go ahead, very apt given my points.

Reinforcements? They’re not an elite police unit

No they weren't. The majority voted brexit. The far right idiots were listened to enough for us to get the most damaging version of brexit and they still aren't happy and are insisting we "listen to their concerns". Using violence.

Less than a month ago Labour won a massive majority. Why aren't you telling the far right they lost, get over it? Why aren't you insisting they "listen to the concerns" of those of us who don't want to live the way they want us to?

It's a rhetorical question, obviously.

And the Islamophobes? Would do you think MN should do about them?

Also fascism is the epitome of the far right.

Stop strawmanning me to "prove" that people say "everything I don't like is far right"

Not all brexiteers are far right, but all the far right are brexiteers and "listening to their reasonable concerns" got us into this mess. I'm fed up of being told to pander to the far right. They need to grow up.

Because telling them that makes fuck all difference, it makes it worse in fact. In any situation like this, the only way forward is to air everything and negotiate. You feel pushed out by immigrants, why? Is there anything that can be done about this without ‘sending them back’ or whatever? How about more investment in deprived areas? Would it help to meet with Islamic religious leaders (as some have offered) and actually speak directly?

These are not happy people. I’m willing to bet most were born into chaos, raised in chaos, and are now raising their children in chaos. They very likely have addiction in their families, were brought up with no money and feel like globalisation and the ‘bourgeois elite’ are determined to ignore them. Many will have been raised without dedicated father figures and see this as the ‘family they never had’. Their personal achievements will be very few and so this makes them feel special and included. They’re being told they’re thick, stupid and ignorant.

How can it "make it worse" than it is now? Riots, attacks, buildings set alight. Its only luck no-one has been killed.

If the far right want to be listened to they need to learn to talk like adults.

You're still falsely equating a desire to leave a political and economic union with the EU with fascism.

Your ignorance is off the scale.

Nobody at any point said that we should listen to the concerns of the far right. 17,410,742 people voted to leave the EU. The Conservatives then won a landslide victory on the basis of 'getting Brexit done'.

You don't like Brexit. So what? I couldn't give less of a shit about your feelz, because the democratic will of the nation was to leave the EU.

You accusing people of being far right, simply because you can't accept democracy (the fucking irony!), would be funny if it wasn't so insane.

That would depend upon how you define islamaphobia. No religion is above criticism.

Given your accusations of far right extends to people wanting their democratic will to be implemented (😂) then i doubt you're somebody that I'd listen to on this subject.

Personally, I'd consider Mumsnet correct to act upon incitement to hatred and violence, but not for criticism of the belief system and the problems it causes.

😂

If you can't comprehend basic language there's not much point in us conversing, is there.

I'll say it again....not all brexiteers are fascists but all fascists are brexiteers.

It's not a hard concept.

That's not actually a fact, though, is it?

You keep repeating it, as if it's a fact, but it isn't.

It's just something that you think is clever.

You are right, not all fascist will have voted in the referendum

It doesn't really matter, Brexit has been delivered, you got what you voted for.

It's the level of discourse. Very difficult to communicate with someone who reads my posts and thinks I said everyone who voted brexit is far right.

Anyway, bored now. Glad it seems to be running out of steam now the far right idiots have realised just how much in the minority they are.

@CassieMaddox

"I'll say it again....not all brexiteers are fascists but all fascists are brexiteers."

Doesn't that depend though on how you choose to define as a fascist though?

Personally I would define a fascist as:
Belief in dictatorial rule rather than democracy.
Militarism
Opposition is forcibly suppressed (although this equally applies to the far left)
Belief in a natural social hierarchy which can be but is not exclusively based on race (for example the caste system in India would also qualify as would apartheid in South Africa).
Interests of the state override individual interests ( which is equally applicable to the far left and to a degree liberal democracies)
Strong state control of the economy (which is definitely applicable to the far left and also to the moderate left).

On the above definition I can't imagine that there are that many actual fascists in UK society.

If you just make up definitions then yes of course.

Yesterday a far right thug was comfortable enough to attend a protest with his top off to show off his swastika tattoo. I'm not sure how much more fascist you need. But you keep minimising their existence 👍

@CassieMaddox

"If you just make up definitions then yes of course."

Of course you are absolutely correct on making up definitions.

Except my definition was based on Wikipedia : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

Whereas your entire definition of fascism seems to be based on seeing one person dumb to have a swastika tattoo.

I think my definition is more substantive.