Disability hate on MN

[IClaudine]

Hi MNHQ

Since Sunak’s announcement on disability benefits, there has been a big increase on MN in hostility towards people who receive then.

The abuse, hate and outright lies (my neighbour’s son’s cousin’s wife climbs Mount Everest but gets PIP etc) being spewed on MN towards disabled people, a group with protected characteristics, has been dreadful and very distressing for disabled people and their loved ones to read,

Please can you do something?

Here is a small selection of the threads where the disability benefit bashers have paid a visit and had a field day. There may be more, but I can’t face searching for them!

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5064828-to-be-terrified-about-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share  

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5065470-people-who-work-have-anxiety-too?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5066670-aibu-to-hope-that-able-bodied-people-will-support-disabled-people-against-the-tory-attack-on-pip?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5064856-pip-vouchers-to-replace-money?reply=134966246&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/money-matters/5066331-do-you-feel-bad-for-receiving-a-high-amount-of-uc?utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I thought the mumsnets with disabilities was meant to be a safe space. Yet earlier in the week people derailed a thread where people had raised concerns about the planned welfare cuts

A disabled Labour MP has said Keir Starmer’s chaotic U-turn on welfare reform will create an “unethical two-tier system”, in a damning intervention which will put further pressure on the prime minister to change course.

Olivia Blake, one of only nine MPs in parliament who has a disclosed disability, said the proposed changes to the welfare bill have been “plucked from the air” by ministers scrambling to secure support for the bill in Tuesday’s crunch vote in the Commons.

“The first thing I thought when I heard the concessions was, wait, we’ve not taken the step back that’s needed here, we’re working to improve a bill which is really harmful,” she said. “This could form an unethical two-tier system that treats two people with the exact same injury or illness differently.”

I see the regular disability benefits basher, not content with one thread filled with metaphorical rocks being thrown at the disabled, has today started another one. 🙄

She is completely right. Labour has completely screwed this up

But this is a thread to discuss ableism on MN, and for people affected to support each other, so would be really grateful if you could not derail.

There are plenty of other threads to discuss the ins and outs of the bill and give Labour (and/or disabled people if that is your wont) a good kicking.

Ministers face showdown on UK welfare reform as concessions fail to quash rebellion. FT.

This could get interesting….

On the plus side, there's a new feature come up on my web version with a little minus button on each thread on active, so I can hide threads from active without having to open them. Proving very useful, otherwise I just read it and get angry

I have been avoiding mn a bit. a quick look at the current batch of threads just tell you how people view disabled people. I don't know what MN HQ can do about it.

Well they could be a bit more willing to delete ableist posts, but they are resistant I am afraid.

your not wrong. it must be awful to be someone who has gone through the nightmare that is filling in those forms, to see the countless threads on mn belittling the experience.

I left MN a few months back, after posting here regularly for about 15 years. I've only signed back in today to say that I won't be coming back until I no longer have to read endless comments calling me a lazy good for nothing scrounger because I happened to become disabled.

It's hellish enough losing your health, but I couldn't hack the hate on here anymore. I deserve to live as much as anyone else.

It is awful and I wish MNHQ would do something. You are worth a million of the scummy benefit bashers ❤️

the amount of these goady threads is awful. I know things are bad when I think that my dc will be ok because they are so disabled. the GF can't surely be talking about them/[.

I'm thought that too but there's been more than one person commenting we should have taken into account our children could have complex health issues from birth and have factored that financially before conception 😣

It’s sheer ignorance. If these people had to live in a disabled person’s shoes for one day, they’d soon see how stupid they are to be jealous about funding people get to simply level a playing field.

I’ve just been on holiday with some people who said they found it very eye opening how much stuff I have to do for my 16 year old dd. They have known me for years but never saw the reality until then.

The thing that annoys me the most is if you report sometimes insanely twatty posts that are not just wrong but hurtful, mean about disabled people as a group, and you report that, you will probably get a thing back of oh we’re leaving it up, people are being robust in replies, educating people is good blah blah blah.

if someone calls that person out on being a twat with the same type of language used towards disabled people as a group they will be deleted. If it’s not right to speak that way to an individual why is it fine to a group?

some of these posters saying these offensive things have been doing it for years, so clearly the we shall let them say these awful things and we can all educate them and sing kumbaya together is not working mnhq.

why are you so reluctant to be robust in your moderation when it comes to this? This has been a topic that keeps coming up for years at this point.

WTF so we need a crystal ball now. mine and all the ones I know are severely disabled because of issue with the birth.

I have friends whose children are disabled because of a random gene mutation. Absolutely nothing they could do to stop their children being disabled. Neither child has obvious issues until they were 6 months old

@TigerRag , right, it's madness isn't it. My DS has partial gene deletion.

One of my things is genetic and it didn't manifest itself until my 20s! I guess my parents should've factored that in before they had me 😂

Please everyone, you don't need to give reasons....

Hi all,

Thanks for your posts.

We’ve seen a number of reports and concerns about threads discussing the benefits system, particularly disability benefits, and whether these discussions should be allowed on Mumsnet and so we think it’s important to address this directly.

Critical conversations about how the benefits system functions, whether it’s effective, fair, or open to misuse, are permitted here. These are complex, timely issues, especially in light of ongoing political and economic change. Questioning whether the system is working as intended isn’t, in itself, disablist, it’s part of a broader national conversation that many people, including those directly affected by the system, care deeply about.

What we do not allow is disablism - and that would include posts that attack or stereotype disabled people, suggest claimants are lying en masse, or mock or belittle individuals on the basis of health conditions or support needs. Those posts will be removed, and repeat offenders may find their accounts closed.
We also want to address the term “benefits bashing,” which comes up frequently in reports. We understand that some posts feel harsh or even distressing, especially to those with experience of relying on benefits. But unless a post clearly breaks our Talk guidelines (for example, by being abusive, hateful, or targeted at individuals), it won’t be removed simply for being critical or expressing an unpopular opinion. Posts critiquing the system are fine but you cannot use someone’s benefit status as a way to discredit them in a thread.

We aim to make Mumsnet a place for difficult, real-world discussions, without allowing the tone to tip into hostility or dehumanisation. If you’re unsure whether something crosses that line, please report it and we’ll review.

Thanks
MNHQ

Hi @BeckyAMumsnet

Thanks for coming on to the thread.

I think that saying disabled people's Motability cars should be marked so that people know they are "free" cars 🙄 is crossing the line, yet MNHQ let it stand.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5362857-taxes-to-rise-to-fund-pip?reply=145298232&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

In contrast, minor infarctions of the rules, like mentioning the content of a post on another thread are rapidly zapped.

Can you see why we have little faith in the moderation when it comes to ableism? The last few days have been awful.

I am trying to phrase my final comment carefully as I don't want to be rude or be banned...many of the people here are disabled or have disabled family members. We know what is and isn't ableism.

Sorry, that link doesn't seem to work. Try again:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/5362857-taxes-to-rise-to-fund-pip?reply=145298232&utm_campaign=reply&utm_medium=share

Ho @PandoraSocks We’ve had reports about this post. While the suggestions may be punitive and perhaps overly simplistic to those with direct experience, and we understand why many posters find them offensive, but we didn't feel it broke our rules (though it was marginal). We allow critical and even uncomfortable views on the benefits system, because in our experience, airing and challenging them openly is better than shutting them down. That doesn’t mean we endorse them. There are many people who have little experience of benefits and perhaps zero experience of the increasing challenges faced by disabled people. We strongly believe that open discussions could go some way to address that. We know that for disabled posters in particular, this political moment feels uncertain and exhausting, and posts like this can add to that, so we understand the strength of feeling and we are trying hard to strike an admittedly difficult balance.

Just logged back in because I had an update email on this post.

Sorry but that's bollocks. Reading shit like that on a daily basis made me feel suicidal. If you genuinely believe that's how your previously long standing posters should be made to feel because it doesn't 'break your guidelines', then your guidelines need to be addressed.

Again, I won't be back until MN is no longer a risk to my mental health. I'm already in daily excruciating pain. Being constantly bullied over it or made to feel like I have no value as a human being reading other PP's bullying and offensive comments is not a standard I will accept. It's clearly got way out of hand recently. Perhaps you should listen to how many disabled people are suffering deeply as a result of your guidelines before coming on here and telling us it's fine. It is not fucking fine.

I've read my fair share of shit on here over the years and I am well versed in robust debate. But outright cruelty being allowed to stand is totally unacceptable. It wouldn't surprise me if these posts led to an actual death because we can't cope with the cruelty levied against us again and again and again.

Signing back out again now - and I cancelled my subscription months ago because I'm not paying for you to allow disabled people to be continually harassed.

Do you not think our lives are hard enough already?