New topic for discussion of the Middle East conflict and a word on our moderation

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all

We’ve had tonnes of feedback about our moderation of these discussions so we thought it worth explaining our principles/ thought processes.

First thing to say is that as MNers and parents we empathise with the absolute abhorrence and distress experienced by so many as a result of this conflict.

In recent days, understandably, there has been an unprecedented surge in the number of reports we’ve received, underlining just how hurt and divided people are about the ensuing conflict in Israel & Gaza. We are aware that wherever we intervene or draw lines it won’t be right for some, but we want to give some clarity on our approach so that folks can better understand our decisions.

Our guiding principle is to allow Mumsnetters to express their opinions, so long as they are civil and within the boundaries of the law and common decency, even when those opinions are challenging or unpalatable to some others.

We do not believe that criticism of Israel’s actions is necessarily anti-Semitic. We do believe that it’s entirely fair to call out and condemn Hamas for the terrorist organisation that they are. But we encourage posters to focus on specific actions rather than making sweeping generalisations about anyone based on their ethnicity, religion, or nationality. Failure to do so is likely to break our guidelines.

We obviously can’t verify the accuracy of every post on the site - we have around 30000 posts a day and frankly even the large news outlets, which have editorial control over the content they produce, seem to be struggling with accuracy in a chaotic and fast moving situation. Mumsnet is first and foremost a forum for discussion and whilst we take moderation very seriously we don’t pre-vet posts and we rely on our users to challenge posts they feel are inaccurate or break our guidelines.

We completely understand that, at this time especially, not everyone can stomach contrary opinions about the rights and wrongs of this conflict. But we do not believe it would be right for Mumsnet to shut down all discussion of this topic - that would be anathema to what we’re here for.

What we can do, however, (and thanks to those who suggested it) is to create a temporary Middle East Conflict forum so that those who would rather not engage with these threads can hide them easily via your Talk settings. (You can also hide individual threads, and we’ll move threads into this topic when necessary).

There’s no solution that works for everyone in the way we moderate this. We do understand how distressing this situation is and we apologise if we’re taking a little longer than usual to respond to reports - suffice to say the team is somewhat stretched - but we are doing our level best to listen and navigate this as fairly and humanely as possible. Please bear in mind that our moderation team are human too and I’d ask you not to take your frustration at world events out on them. Thanks.

I don’t think posting on mn is mandatory nor is everyone having to use it in the same way

You seriously think that chosing not to view and contribute to Mumsnet posts on this conflict is a way of escaping it?
You don't think, perhaps, that commenting on this conflict - and consuming the comments of others - is adding yet more trivialising noise to one of the most tragic developments since the second world war?
When we while away our hours, soothe our sense of frustrated anger, by MNing on such a serious topic we shouldn't kid ourselves that we are actually contributing anything useful, or engaging in our civic responsibility. We are just adding our widow's mite to the wall-to-wall trivialising noise with which politicians and the media are responding.
In places where words make no difference it is better to be silent.

Oi, most of us read news and don't need some waffle of conspiracy and misinformation combo all over basic chat forum.
It's not out of sight out of mind for news about it.

It's not WW3, it's one of just over 100 conflicts currently going.

Yes a permanent world conflict topic would be good, I agree

There are blanket topic topics for discussions on mumsnet. So this seems fitting.

Also people don't talk enough about other conflicts around the world. A lot of them are very interlinked in different ways. So world conflict seems fitting.

This

This is another good point

Many threads are a mess of attacks and misinformation anyway

Thank you mumsnet. It maybe would have been better to do this a few days ago so we don't distress others that are more anxious or have several threads that are often basically talking about the same thing. However appreciate that you have done this now.

The trouble is this leads to people starting a thread under the gise of talking about something else. You will need people to report threads that do this. Else the very idea of a conflict topic is useless.

I think you could do with investigating the accounts which are obviously being employed to derail conversation on this subject. It's quite obvious that this forum is being used to spread misinformation and propaganda as well as overwhelming normal discourse.

Absolutely this. @JustineMumsnet I’ve been noticing, by using advanced search, that in a great many cases the most vocal and antagonistic posters have a history that starts only one or two weeks ago.

I believe your forum is being used as a platform for propagandists (perhaps on both sides) on a larger scale than you realise.

I really think you should address this, users who have been here less than say, a month should not be allowed to post on these subjects.

I have been a mumsneter since around 2012 and get what you mean it happens a lot with the big issues. Lockdown and covid were not the start of the sudden appearance of new posters or people changing their username.

However many people may suddenly come to the forum because they need to express their emotional thought to someone, not just for manipulative reasons. They may in real life not be able to talk about current events. It is a relatively safe space for this.

Personally I am on my I think 8th username since 2012. This is because maybe I have talked about personal stuff that could be recognised in real life, needing to get some things off my chest. Like at the start of this current conflict I am being careful because of my job and Jewishness. I can't risk people looking at my previous posts and finding useful information about me.

Yes it is obvious some people come here or name change to post misinformation. However that is probably not the case with everyone that has a username or account under a month old

Hi all - we have seen some new joiners who are clearly out to cause trouble but relatively speaking they are few in number. Please bear in mind that many posters frequently change their username and so long as their intention is not to deceive others, we've no issue with that. It's also worth mentioning that not every new joiner who adds to these discussions is doing so in bad faith. As always the best thing you can do if you have concerns is report them to us. We'll always take a look.

There have been quite a few posters (more than usual imho) around chat/AIBU last week mentioning deppression and suicide/suicidal thoughts, pnd and so on, can threads about Izrael-Hamas bemoved to ME conflict? Especially the ones with "popular" outrage claiming no one cares about dying children in Gaza? (I would go on about them not caring about any other dying and suffering children in other about 25+ nations currently including 10 top humanitarian crises, but you know, that's not on news, but you know, Don want to get crucified).

It would be great if these get moved into the topic straight away. That's what it was made for

The threads do need to be actually moved

Thank you @JustineMumsnet for that sentence " We do not believe that criticism of Israel’s actions is necessarily anti-Semitic. , because many posters seems to ferociously believe the opposite.

It is not an easy topic to moderate, so I am sure your "report" box is overflowing! Good luck! Gin might be needed!

Thank you for making this a separate topic Mumsnet. But please keep threads on the subject moved into there.

Threads about this keep being posted in AIBU and Chat on the subject. Sometimes they are worded in a roundabout way, but they still need moved. It makes it better all round for those that want to avoid the discussion as well as making it easier to participate for those that do wish to discuss it.

I would say, it depends, @Lionoso . A discussion on the why, how, the difference sides belongs to the new topic. But if a discussion is created in parenting on how to explain it to kids, it should stay there. The question however is bigger.

I guess part of the problem and why it has exploded the way it has exploded it that we have all ignored the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for decades. We have seen in unfold on tv, the settlers, the destruction of schools and future of a generation, without the slightest reaction. So doing the same thing on MN. ignoring it, putting the topic in a dark corner, could it be seen as perpetrating the very same thing that brought all this to the bottle neck.

For those who want to go deep into the why, history, future (what future?) of the area, the new topic is fine. But pushing, and hiding any discussion the second it has the words Israel, Palestine, Hamas, war, ... you can't and you shouldn't .

Another example . If I were to create a discussion in AIBU :
AIBU to be disgusted UK abstained from a UN vote for a humanitarian truce to help and save local population.

I think it should bloody well stay on AIBU.

I am allowed to be a mum and have a brain. Have opinions and express them whenever and where I want. Not behind closed doors, or in this case, a closed topic. Otherwise, what is MN for, just potty training, wedding dresses, which take away to order?

@JustineMumsnet @BeckyAMumsnet

The disinformation is out of hand. The anti-semitism is out of hand.

It is clear that MN don’t have the fact-checking ability or the personnel to manage this as well as you usually moderate everything else. There is no shame in nix-ing this topic while it is so divisive.

BUT right now there are a lot of passionate racists airing their views.

I can’t support being part of this damaging culture and will resign my premium if this goes on.

The disinformation is out of hand.

Agreed. Too many think/post Palestinians = hamas. Those posts should be deleted for being goady.

Well said

Criticism of the Israeli government is not anti semitism. This has been covered many times before.

@flufferknutter what makes you think it is only IDF comments I am referring to? Anti-Semitism is prejudice and that is rife.

You'll have to link. I'm on the middle east board and I'm not seeing any because they're not permitted.

@JustineMumsnet , I have experienced being admin on a Facebook group and it can be really rewarding but an onerous responsibility at times. I think MN are doing an outstanding job of remaining neutral in difficult circumstances. I don’t think people always realise that group admin have lives and can’t always respond instantaneously. Peace and respect. 🙏🏻

People DO realise that moderators have lives. And also that there may not be enough experienced moderators to go round.

So what does that mean in practice? Racism stands?

There are so many poorly moderated threads. Hamas supporting threads. Denying events of 7 October.

These things are complicated and anti-semitism is insidious.