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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

We need to be able to discuss Gaza

126 replies

ismu · 17/10/2023 21:59

Can MNHQ please allow a forum to discuss Gaza with some clear guidelines on what and what is not considered anti semitic?
Taking these threads down just dumbs down the site completely.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
13
Petaldust · 17/10/2023 22:02

I agree and the censorship looks sinister tbh

cakeorwine · 17/10/2023 22:04

Lots of MN threads seem to be being hidden about this subject.

A hospital has been blown up. People have their views on this and how the UK reacts.

But discussion is being hidden.

NotTerfNorCis · 17/10/2023 22:04

Came here to say this. One thread was pulled for a 'misleading' title, but it was what is being reported in the news.

SisterMichaelsHabit · 17/10/2023 22:10

To be fair at the moment people just can't be trusted to talk like rational adults. It's too emotive for everyone and keeps degenerating into shit slinging.

Hopefully MNHQ are working on something but as it stands those threads aren't going anywhere. No one is really discussing anything for long. People on both sides are shouting their opinion and not listening to anyone else except to attack them or decry their stuff as opinion/fake news/propaganda.

And almost everyone seems to have picked a side and not picking a side, or having any compassion for "the bad guys" (on either side, depending who you talk to) is also crime of the century.

And most news sites need to do better too. The partiality I've seen from various outlets is abhorrent.

Original poster
ismu · 17/10/2023 22:13

We need to be able to discuss it, particularly when you compare some of the threads that stood during covid. People were hardly rational.
This is really important news. MNHQ need to give guidance. Also: this is a trusted site, X is a complete shitshow, come on @MNHQ please

OP posts:
Lostearring · 17/10/2023 22:17

It can't be right that every critisim of Israel is considered antisemitic or that expressing that view is antisemitic.

beachquestion · 17/10/2023 22:24

No but it is a problem when the news - and then the discussion - is skewed by misreporting. The incident was initially reported with headlines of 'Israel bombs hospital' while lower down saying the IDF were investigating. So everyone assumes Israel did it as per the headline. Then when Israel say it wasn't them, the audience is primed to assume they're lying, and lot of posts that to that effect.

It isn't anti-Semitic to criticise Israel, but the assumption that they're in the wrong and if they're not then they're lying does veer into that territory.

JustTheOne11 · 17/10/2023 22:25

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. Just don’t do it antisemitcally, it’s not difficult

RudsyFarmer · 17/10/2023 22:29

To be honest I think removing threads is the right thing to do. We are veering widely between anti-semitism and Islamophobia in every thread I see on this subject. There’s enough hate speech out there. Let’s not add to it.

Original poster
ismu · 17/10/2023 22:29

But @beachquestion that surely can't be right. By extension we could say that when we suggest Hamas caused the bombing we are being Islamophobic?
Jewish ≠ Israel and Palestinian ≠ Hamas or Muslim

I think it's anti semitic to suggest that all Jews stand with the actions of the Israeli government

OP posts:
Lostearring · 17/10/2023 22:30

JustTheOne11 · 17/10/2023 22:25

Criticism of Israel is not antisemitic. Just don’t do it antisemitcally, it’s not difficult

I was deleted for exactly that. I just expressed dissatisfaction that anything criticising Israel seems to be considered antisemitic. Just that, nothing else in my post at all.

beachquestion · 17/10/2023 22:37

ismu · 17/10/2023 22:29

But @beachquestion that surely can't be right. By extension we could say that when we suggest Hamas caused the bombing we are being Islamophobic?
Jewish ≠ Israel and Palestinian ≠ Hamas or Muslim

I think it's anti semitic to suggest that all Jews stand with the actions of the Israeli government

Of course all Jews don't stand behind behind Israel, I don't think my post in any way suggested that though.

And criticism of Israel is legitimate and necessary, but it needs to be based on proper unbiased reporting, and that isn't what happened this evening. I don't think several threads of 'Israel did this awful thing how could they' are helpful when they didn't do it - and it detracts from other legitimate criticisms. But the root problem was biased news reports who presented it one way before it was confirmed.

OwlBasket · 17/10/2023 22:37

Yes. It’s hard. Discussion is essential. Also the essence of this place.

MN can navigate LGBTetc. They must do Gaza. If not, things have gone very wrong.

After everything and all the changes here in 16 years, my respect would be gone. I’d still come. But then I still go to Twitter, for my sins

@JustineMumsnet are you still here?

Screenskeen · 17/10/2023 22:40

The propaganda of each thread follows this narrative before it gets deleted.

We need to be able to discuss Gaza
DontLeanOnTheKeyboard · 17/10/2023 22:41

I agree - threads seem to be shut down the minute there’s any mention of anti-Semitic comments. I’ve not read (or written) anything saying they don’t like Jews. I’ve seen condemnation of theIsraeli govt actions, much as I’ve seen condemnation of the Russian govt actions. But the Ukraine war threads weren’t deleted.

IsItThough · 17/10/2023 22:41

It must be discussed.

Every post with hate speech must be reported. But it must be possible to discuss this issue.

Highandlows · 17/10/2023 22:46

I want to know why Egypt and Jordan being neighbours do not want to accept Palestinians people? I find people blame Western leaders but what about the other countries in the Middle East?

Screenskeen · 17/10/2023 22:49

The Egyptian boarder keeps getting bombed by Israel. They have to think about their own people too.

MCOut · 17/10/2023 22:52

@ismu OP I completely agree that there needs to be guidance. I think we cannot be expected to not discuss this topic. However, it is highly emotive and both Jewish and Muslim posters need to be protected from having to read blatant prejudice.

I’m horrified by what is going on in Gaza, but some of the threads written by Jewish Mumsnetters are enough to make me cry. There needs to be guidance around how we can discuss this without contributing further to how unsafe they feel.

Unithorn · 17/10/2023 22:52

To be fair MN don't owe anyone anything. They're an online forum who most of us use for free, it's naieve to suggest threads get deleted purely because people are discussing it, some of the posts are ridiculously ignorant, goady and written purposefully to inflame tensions. There ain't no way the night watch who I believe moderate for free can keep up with those determined to spout their nonsense overnight either. Sure some moderation has been heavy handed but can't blame them when it's so raw and people are hurting on all sides which is translating to fanning the flames in real life. If they don't feel comfortable hosting such threads that's up to them isn't it.

Original poster
ismu · 17/10/2023 23:09

@Unithorn that's true but hardly in line with the "spirit of MN"?
If we can't be trusted to discuss important issues and report prejudice when we see it, the site as it is will die

OP posts:
PencilsInSpace · 17/10/2023 23:38

RudsyFarmer · 17/10/2023 22:29

To be honest I think removing threads is the right thing to do. We are veering widely between anti-semitism and Islamophobia in every thread I see on this subject. There’s enough hate speech out there. Let’s not add to it.

I agree with this.

I also agree with @OwlBasket - Discussion is essential and if we can't have it then things have gone very wrong.

Never have I been more frightened for the state of public discourse than I am today.

Unithorn · 17/10/2023 23:39

ismu · 17/10/2023 23:09

@Unithorn that's true but hardly in line with the "spirit of MN"?
If we can't be trusted to discuss important issues and report prejudice when we see it, the site as it is will die

I doubt it, most traffic is to inane AIBU threads really, although some use MN for serious discussion and its provided a space for certain issues, i don't think many associate it with serious conversations. The balance of moderating and fair discussion is tricky, it depends whether MN see the effort as worth it. It's stamping out misinformation as well, platforrms such as X don't bother and then unsubstantiated claims and 'facts' spread like wildfire; for something such as this that's not good at all.

DavidSnow007 · 17/10/2023 23:41

Screenskeen · 17/10/2023 22:49

The Egyptian boarder keeps getting bombed by Israel. They have to think about their own people too.

Hamas keeps firing rockets from the area so that the IDF will attack them, thus keeping the border closed.

Boundoverbyacat · 17/10/2023 23:42

After everything and all the changes here in 16 years, my respect would be gone

oh no @OwlBasket please me you’re not disappointed. You’re the reason Justine does what she does.