MN needs a closer watch of FWR

[BodegaSushi]

There is a concerning growth of posts with racist undertones cropping up on these boards, all under the guise of being proudly 'anti-woke'.

Apparently diversity is 'woke' and worthy of derision.

This is the thread I'm referring to here.

Disney went woke now they're going broke www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4836570-disney-went-woke-now-theyre-going-broke

Mumsnet needs to looks at why that board draws such types of posts, and why posters feel so comfortable openly airing their racism.

Absolutely.

Yes but those people aren't providing any proof or acknowledging the issue that FWR is essentially a designated space for anyone who wants to discuss the fact TWANW, and any thread started elsewhere on the site discussing this issue is moved to FWR.

I get that Mumsnet is treading a fine line between allowing that discussion (which is not allowed in many other places on the internet) and keeping it contained, but the downside of that approach is clear for all to see.

I believe this poster is referring to the forum of telegraph readers who arrived on FWR and created the single continuous thread that is restarted at 1000.

There are a few who interact with the board plus a couple who were already here. There are some who stay on that thread only.

This poster has attempted to make their arrival into something it is not. And the very concept that of those who came none of them could be actual feminists because they read the Telegraph is not a new one.

The prejudice displayed by some people about different media is simply remarkable.

The fact that biological sex is binary and immutable and sometimes it matters is not a right wing view. It is one shared by the vast majority of all humans who have ever lived.

Why is it always 'if you align with some views that right wing people have so you must be right wing'

and never 'Right wing people align with some view that left wing people have to they must be left wing'?

Or

'Some views are cross political views and can be held by people on the right, on the left and in the centre'?

Ah, I see.

The thing is there are feminists who now give clicks and traffic to sites like the Daily Mail and the Telegraph because they're the only ones actually reporting on this issue.

If you want reporting on this issue which doesn't characterise not agreeing that TWAW as anti trans bigotry from a left wing outlet, you are shit out of luck.

The Telegraph has forums?

I don’t blame you one bit. I see it and I’m appalled at the faux ignorance of it that is being repetitively deployed on this thread. It also bothered me that some posters were ok with racism on FWR because it gets deleted. Not a single thought to the experiences of Black MNers that have to see it, reading, report it (it doesn’t always get deleted) and then sit with the psychological damage of knowing certain posters really don’t give a shit about Black women. That not only are they free to express racist thoughts on FWR, they leave that shit for Black women to clean it up after them. A deleted racist post doesn’t mean that the racism didn’t happen, that it didn’t do damage.

I believe this poster is referring to the forum of telegraph readers who arrived on FWR and created the single continuous thread that is restarted at 1000.

I used to post on that forum and it isn't the Telegraph don't want to out anyone but it used to be the Guardian forum.

We could just as easily argue that trans activists are aligned with Tommy Robinson because their violent and intimidating behaviour at Let Women Speak events across the globe is straight out of the EDL playback.

*playbook

I didn't know this either and I doubt there are many feminists who do.

Anyone know what this thread that went to 1000 posts is actually called?

I live in hope that things will change but completely understand how you feel.

I didn't know this either and I doubt there are many feminists who do.

I think people have confused the Telegraph with the Guardian. And the people weren't "banned", they chose to leave as the other posters didn't want them posting about trans issues, and made it hostile for them.

I didn't say I am OK with racism on FWR because it gets deleted.

I said I hadn't seen the racism on FWR because it had been deleted and that it is a good thing it was deleted because that shows it isn't in fact tolerated.

So we are wrong for reporting it and wrong for not reporting it.

Seems fair.

I've been pondering overnight. And at the risk of getting shot down from all sides, here's my view.

The most overt racism I've seen on FWR has been the false comparison between TW and black women (sort of: if you can exclude TW, it is a small step to excluding black women).

The Disney thread linked to originally is problematic to me and I dipped in and left it. Should black people (or women) get more representation in films? Yes. But for any existing series, swapping a character from white to black or male to female may or may not 'work' for people invested in the series due to overall series consistency. I don't think it is 'wrong' to have that discussion as such, especially when it relates to 'identity politics'.

Then there is the word 'woke' which clearly has different meanings in America than it does in the UK. I can well imagine therefore that using woke as a pejorative in the USA may be seen as racist whereas in the UK I genuinely believe it isn't generally - as in the word woke is not defined including race and people don't use it as such.

I have seen similar problems on how disabled people are referred to with occasional US posters using terms acceptable in the US which are unacceptable in the UK.

This then leads to a bigger issue on MN. MN is primarily a UK site. By that I mean its roots are in the UK and the majority of its posters are in the UK. The narrative / background of race & racism are different between USA and UK. You can't just take USA politics (and how they respond to race, TW, abortion) and plonk it down in the UK. It doesn't work.

I am sure there are covert racist posters on MN. it would be surprising if there weren't. The difficulty is identify what posts are due to racism v other reasons. Meghan Sussex is a great example. Some people may dislike her because she is black/mixed race. Others may dislike her for encouraging Harry to split from his family, going on Oprah etc. Unless people are explicit it is difficult to me at least to discern who is who.

So many of the women supported by FWR are non-white of which I guess Allison Bailey(sp?) is the most obvious. It would be strange if FWR was particularly more racist than anywhere else on MN.

Why is this an "FWR issue", rather than a site wide issue?

Sorry x post TeenDivided, question is general, not in response to your post. I agree with you.

Where a lot of the critics of FWR fall down is in thinking that FWR isn't full of minority posters. You may be able to fool terminally online males that only white, middle class women know what sex is - but FWR members come from every protected characteristic and every minority group. We're all ages, class levels, income brackets, education levels, races, disabilities, religions/and none, and sexualities.
Safeguarding DCs and protecting women's rights isn't a niche activity. Pretending white middle class men are the most oppressed group in the world is actually the minority position - no matter how much money US TRAs throw at it.

As far as I can work out, MNetters shouldn't be allowed to talk at all because them talking just does too much harm and they're all awful. But only on the FWR board, where they're all far right stooges and spies.

Just out of interest, which posters are the far right infiltrators and how can you spot them? Particularly interested since we were told the other day that anyone claiming that lesbians were being harassed to be inclusive of male people with their bodies and being called sexual racists was a right wing extremist lying to them. Which would include Veronica Ivy, Nancy Kelley and Stonewall, but okay.... and the evidence of the interviews on TV kind of also denies the line that this never happened and was made up by right wing extremists.

There just seems to be a demand to participate in chanting 'reality isn't happening' on multiple themes, with this being somehow virtuous.

Pretty sure it was a white male trans activist who threw glitter into a black woman's dreadlocks at a Let Women Speak event.

Thank you. I agree, it's scary that these people are everywhere, negatively impacting lives of ethnic women and girls, yet trans people are the primary people we should worry about.

You do realise it is possible to care about more than one thing at a time?