Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

😂 Awesome rebuttal
thanks for the reasoned, insightful response.

sure I’ll scroll through and re-read the entire thread to specifically read your posts.

Yup I’ll definitely do that.

Good luck OP and thanks for starting this thread.

it’s definitely highlighted some of the unpleasant gatekeeping women living without children face.

I would have thrown the book at the wall when she realised she was pregnant! How frustrating!

I have so far been unable to think of any books either.

Thread on What We're Reading if anyone is interested:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/what_were_reading/4814846-novels-where-protagonist-is-happily-childfree-by-choice-and-remains-so-at-the-end-of-the-book

@musixa I should’ve done - I hate to leave a book unfinished though so I speed-read it.

Have added the thread to my watched list, thanks! I’m loathe to say this without setting off a chorus of gotchas but Reddit has a thread on this too: https://www.reddit.com/r/suggestmeabook/comments/k2o8lw/book_with_a_female_protagonist_who_is_explicitly/.

You're not alone. I feel like someone has slipped me crazy pills.

(I love that she references Cristina Yang, who is my favourite childfree character of all time, such that they even did a whole episode of a hypothetical world in which she had kids, and demonstrated how, as she always maintained it would, it ruined her life.

It’s not easy to watch because she literally can’t be accepted by her romantic partner for it, but it manages to do the “career driven woman doesn’t want kids” thing in a way that feels authentic and inspirational rather than just, y’know, a heartless cow lady.)

I don't like books where the main focus is romance and childbearing. Some favourites are 'Fingersmith', although the two main characters are lesbian they have no interest in having children. I liked 'Stranded', by Sarah Goodwin, which has a main female character who has no interest in childbearing. Obviously Stieg Larsson's dragon tattoo series is very violent, but again no childbearing stuff, I think? If you are looking for books where not having children is fundamental to the plot I'm not really sure, but I think it depends what you read. Maybe someone needs to write some?

Tumbleweed so far - I'm going out shortly to make the most of the sun so I'll check it again later.

I leave for consideration Rebecca. As far as I can recall, there is no mention of the second Mrs De Winter wanting to have children. Rebecca herself used the false claim of pregnancy to taunt Max, leading him to murder her (or deliberately goaded him to kill her to avoid a slow, painful death). It's very debatable whether the De Winters are happy at the end of the book and Max's actions re. Rebecca have rendered them both societal outliers; but I do not get the sense of a message that they 'should have settled down and had children'.

Thank you - I have enjoyed another Sarah Goodwin so I will check those out.

I think the problem might be the mix of child free by choice and childless due to circumstances on the topic of children.

It might be better to call it a board where no aspects of children are discussed?

I belong to a small special interest group where most of the members are without children. They really do like a moan about children which might not sit well with those who are unwillingly childless?

As far as I can recall, there is no mention of the second Mrs De Winter wanting to have children

There is one passage where she does imagine their children coming into the house and her telling them to put their stuff away that they've brought in. Years since I've read it so can't recall where it comes.

@musixa I'll just say the Stieg Larsson ones are very violent, so be cautious! I can't quite remember 'Jamaica Inn' but I think the heroine is childfree. Love Du Maurier.

I read the end of Jamaica Inn and thought that the heroine - feisty, independent, fearless Mary Yellan who has been broken down by her experience at the inn - is going to spend the rest of her life bearing children and traipsing along in the wandering footsteps of a feckless charming waster who gives her the occasional black eye when he's had a few. Just like the way her aunt followed Joss Merlyn and suffered for it.

I can't think of ANY novels with happily childfree women.

Not a single book, but I always liked the character of Granny Weatherwax in the Discworld series. A great example of a character that doesn’t need children to be complete.

@MrsDanversGlidesAgain Yes, can't remember it too well, but she does go with Jem.

Well that would be a bit pointless if we want to talk about stuff unrelated to children we can post in whatever section covers our interest.

We want to talk about childlessness and what this means for us personally and for women in general. That doesn't mean moaning about noisy kids in restaurants, that's an AIBU post. We want to discuss societal pressures, media representation, perceptions and stereotypes and we want to share experiences of being childless.

I'm sure those who are secure and happy in their childlessness can manage to be respectful of those who are sad or regretful about their childlessness whilst still talking about the issues that affect us. And of course many don't fit squarely in either category.

Some of the most supportive comments about infertility and unwanted childlessness on mumsnet have been from the childfree by choice posters (and some of the parents whose usernames I recognise on this thread, there are a core few who are particularly supportive to childless posters)

Some of the comments from parents on a recent thread about childfree/childless people

*Obsessions with their pets
Women who seem to become the child. I’m not sure if this is because they choose this role or if their partner just wants to care for them.

I have other friends without children who are incredibly strong and independent, but a large proportion are quite precious and needy.

I've known a few woman in their 50s/60s/70s who are childless and they all have a unique selfishness

However; I do find some childless couples slightly strange. Sadly, I suspect it’s those who would have dearly loved children and couldn’t.

I do think many seem to think they know much about life- when in reality they don’t really have a clue about anything other than how to suit themselves. Can get quite irritating.

Since you asked for an honest opinion:
I won't say it to their face or make comments to them, but I do pity single and childless people over 40.
To me it means that something went wrong in their lives. They couldn't build a relationship with anyone, or maybe they are infertile, or something happened (e.g. their partner died)*

I've literally never seen posts like that from childfree posters.

I can't think of ANY novels with happily childfree women.

Off the top of my head, pretty well the entire Virago back catalogue, that I've read at any rate. Numerous books written by women from both Victorian times, and the era of the Great War onwards. Cannot for the life of me think of a single title, though! I mean Colette, Christina Stead, Mansfield, Woolf, Anais Nin, Edith Warton, Jane Bowles, and numerous other childless women authors who I admire, have written short stories and novels featuring women making their way in the world without children and forging interesting lives. In more modern times, in the comic novels of Marion Keyes or in the earlier work of Hilary Mantel. I prefer melancholy but beautifully written books, so anything by Jean Rhys features a depressed woman without children.

There's always Miss Marple, as well.

this is not a 'child free' thread though

Yeah, it’d be much clearer if it were on a childfree board. Oh wait.

@fitzwilliamdarcy I'm in agreement with a board

Applause.

Being childfree being commented on wasn't the issue. The fact that a childfree women was portrayed as a woman with a problem that needed to be fixed so that she could then have children is the issue.

Women without children are often portrayed as either:

Self centred career women who need to meet the right man/deal with their past and then they have children

Infertile women who always ended up with a miracle baby, its very rare that they never have a child

Women who steal babies because they are driven mad by not having their own

I've literally never seen posts like that from childfree posters

Not just the issue of childfree versus having children, but there are any number of posters on this site who genuinely cannot understand that people make different life choices and decisions from them. They are utterly baffled by it.

One that occurs to me is spending Christmas alone. Really sad if you don't want to, but OTOH, there are people on here like me who quite happily admit they don't mind it, spoil themselves, don't want a pity invitation to your Xmas lunch for 24 relatives plus dogs and drunk FIL, thanks - and yet you still get posters saying 'If I knew someone was alone at Xmas I'd insist on inviting them to lunch. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't.'

Or declaring that you're happily single. 'Never mind, OP, it's not too late. You'll meet someone when you least expect it.' They will not do posters who say 'I'm happily childfree/single/alone at Xmas' the honour of respecting those decisions. Do they feel threatened, or something?

Add to that uptight anal types who can’t tolerate disorder in their lives.