Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

No one said there wasn’t

if YRTFT you’ll see we’ve already established Schrödinger’s parent
what’s your point?

I have rtft. I've been on it since the start. Now I'm wondering if wine has made me get the wrong end of the stick.

There is, hence the board is for those who never had living children. If others gatecrash with relevant and respectful posts no problem because us childless/childfree people are an inclusive bunch. Not like the exclusionary arseholes who insist we shouldn't be on a forum that the owner welcomes is to

It isn't just her opinion. There is a fundamental difference in never having had children and in having raised and now having adult children who do not live at home, but may return to stay, or move back in should circumstances dictate, who will probably be there for Christmas and many other occasions, who will be around in some capacity even minimal as you grow older, and then old, and no doubt will show up for your funeral and inherit your house.

Also, as pointed out in this thread earlier, there is already a board for empty nesters called "Parents of Adult Children".

A mini rant -

a. As an example of a thread I might start on the board we want
b. Because I want to have a mini-rant

Portrayal of childfree women in books. I've just finished a book which really annoyed me - I won't name it to avoid spoilers.

The blurb suggested it was doing to be about a childfree woman being put under pressure to have a baby. Great, I thought, relatable book where I won't be skimming over boring paragraphs about about how lovely babies smell.

The book started well, presenting a woman living a full life in her happy marriage and job where she was both successful and doing something she felt was worthwhile.

The story unfolded well, but then halfway through the book, we discover that there is a 'dark secret' - a fear based reason for her not wanting to have children. My heart sank like a stone at that point because it was then abundantly obvious she was going to overcome this fear by the end of the book. Sure enough, the book ends with her baby being born 🙄

There was an interview with the author at the end, where she said, in the course of writing the book, she'd 'talked to lots of her childfree friends'. Really? She can't have listened very hard.

It really annoyed me, the inference that an attractive, successful woman could not be genuinely happy with the life choice of not having children, there had to be a secret fear underlying it all; and a subtext that women who don't have children must be afraid of doing so, and 'happily ever after' has to involve a baby popping out. Disappointing, from an author I normally quite like, too.

The blurb suggested it was doing to be about a childfree woman being put under pressure to have a baby. Great, I thought, relatable book where I won't be skimming over boring paragraphs about about how lovely babies smell.

But the fact that the child-free-ness was actually cited in the blurb makes it very likely that the childfree-ness was going to be salient and commented on during the book. There are plenty of books where characters just happen to be childfree and it's not seen as odd in any way.

This comment is exactly the reason OP wants her own board 🤯😖😳😫

🙄

I would have felt disappointed with that rather unimaginative plot! It's as though it's a default happy ending, we're repeatedly spoon-fed this as the only possible outcome.

It just echos many of our experiences, no wonder so many childfree women are repeatendly told: "you'll soon change your mind..."

It's beyond patronising.

That isn't the point I was making. I chose the book because the child-freedom was a main part of the plot, but I was very disappointed when it turned out the reason for it was the protagonist's fear of having a child; and that the book ended with her rejoining the fold of 'normal' women by having a baby.

I'm not saying there are no books with childfree protagonists. I would be interested in examples of books with a female protagonist who is childfree and happy and remains that way. More often the childfree character is the best friend of the protagonist and a doting honorary auntie to her DC.

Exactly - it's why I would be wary of posting it on 'What We're Reading' - too many people would completely miss the point.

Yes - my heart really did sink when the 'secret reason' was revealed and what had started out as an interesting book suddenly became totally predictable. I can't help reading the message as 'deep down all women really want babies'. I'd have been really happy if the attractive, intelligent, successful protagonist had been allowed to be all those things without having to have a child.

I do wonder what the author's 'childfree friends' really thought of the finished book.

I have never been in the camp that says to that write fiction about something, you must have lived experience of it - I think it's an attitude that can stifle creativity - but things like this do make me sympathise with that perspective.

But there isn’t on for the childless/child free and as you state we are ‘fundamentally different’ to other groups then we deserve our own board too

i’m glad everyone now seems to support this 😊

fundamentally though my point stands

So you now disagree with yourself?

The smart people wouldn't 😀 but of course I completely see your point. I'm still so disturbed that so many people have an issue with it!

It would certainly be a good thing if we had a place for discussions of media portrayals of childless/childfree women and book reviews and recommendations including self help books for childless/childfree, without parents butting in to have their say.

No - I recognise that people can have different opinions and have no desire to get into a goady tit-for-tat opinion-based disagreement that is aimed to derail the the thread.

feel free to take that as a ‘win’ though if that’s what you need 🤷‍♀️

Very much so, KimberleyClark. It's telling that the first response to my comments about a book, even on this childfree thread, was a post from someone with children pooh-poohing my reaction.

Nothing like a good Parensplain so that all of us without children can be told what we really think and feel! 😂

I thought it would be nice to acknowledge your response to BadNomad was out of line, and that you had on further thought changed your mind, rather than just gliding over it as if it hadn't happened.

But then this thread is a sea of illogical statements. So there we are.

The subject of child-bearing as 'redemption' in fiction is very interesting. It's only just occurred to me that this is a facet of a 'classic' that's a long-term favourite of mine - Orwell's 'Keep the Aspidistra Flying' - in that case, from a male perspective. When I first read it as a teenager my reaction was flatly that the protagonist, Comstock, had 'sold out' at the end of the book, although I later saw the ending in a more nuanced way - but essentially, his girlfriend's pregnancy (in the 1930s so in view of societal conventions, inevitably) is the deciding factor in his return to conventional lower-middle-class society.

If only I had the time and the mental energy to write a thesis on this 😃

Ok you’re pretty determined 🤷‍♀️

I said ‘Fundamentally my point stands’ - I’m not sure what English comprehension teaching you had but that phrase is not a synonym for ‘I disagree with myself’

if you can’t see the difference between those statements I’m afraid I can’t really help you.

it means that the point I made still stands - there is a need for the board, that board would be welcoming (something I can see you struggle with) and would include different facets of life without children (there are numerous examples on this thread of issues which cut across different groups of women without children)

But thanks for your continued attacks on the Childfree - you’re demonstrating very clearly why people without children need their own board and safe space to express their opinions without continually being told their experience/thoughts/lived experience are incorrect and without goady posters imagining things we’ve not said in some bizarre effort to say ‘gotcha!’

it’s very tedious

But thanks for your continued attacks on the Childfree

Thank you for your long and totally bonkers post. Read my submissions to this thread.

At my peril, since we don't have our own board at present, I'm going to start a thread in the reading topic asking for suggestions of books where the protagonist is happily childfree and remains so!

Hoping if I simply ask for book titles, I won't get goady comments.

When I saw the post about the book, I knew the first comment would be a parent being like “butbutbut books about being childfree involve children so you should really not read any of them. You need ones where a side character mentioned once is childfree, which you wouldn’t know from the blurb. Go and read one of those and stop complaining!”

I had a similar response to a book about a dystopia where one woman survives and she’s hardcore, literally fighting and building her own den in the middle of a snowstorm, learning how to be alone etc. But then of course she discovers that that one might stand that wasn’t mentioned left her pregnant, and of course she now has something to be proud of about herself, and live for. The fact that she overcame all of those other things means nothing. The whole second half of the book is her having and raising the baby and repopulating the world and being seen as a saviour. Really bloody annoying.

I literally can’t think of a book where the female characters are childfree and it’s not depicted in a snide way by the author.