Childfree Mumsnetters' Board?

[musixa]

There's been some discussion on this thread about the idea of a childfree/life without children board, so I thought I would raise the suggestion on Site Stuff

[[https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4811166-to-ask-why-so-many-child-free-people-are-on-mumsnet?reply=126404125

My thinking is that the board would be a safe space for Mumsnetters who, for whether by choice or making the best of the hand they've been dealt, are embracing the childfree life, to discuss the issues that uniquely affect us - some examples I can think of are discrimination when it comes to workplace holidays; planning for old age and inheritance issues, how to cope when your friendship group only want to meet in child-friendly venues; family pressure to have children.

I would also hope it might stop so many threads like the linked one popping up, which often attract goady posters.

I hope you don't feel this is a step too far as a board suggestion and will give it serious consideration.

I have stepchildren but none of my own. I joined MN after looking up a decorating problem on Google and MN came up with the best information. I enjoy the dog house, tack room, property and relationships too. So much of MN isn't about being a biological parent, but about loads of things that anyone with a pulse would find interesting.

I actually feel a little bit sorry for women whose identity is so wrapped up in being a mum that they can't imagine having anything in common with women who don't have children. I absolutely love being a mum, but it is only one part of a multifaceted identity.

@MrsBennetsPoorNerves I stated a while ago the board could be a good idea, but yes, I do wonder why MN seems like the best place. If it helps people who need it, that's great, but it may further change the user demographic away from mothers. As I said before, they should change the name to womennet, so mothers don't think they will be talking just to other mothers on here. There was a value to me in thinking I was communicating primarily with other mothers who shared similar experiences, but I wouldn't want to shut out women who need the site for other issues.

At the end of the day, exactly how will a childless topic affect people with children?
The answer is, it won't. Just don't look at it 🤷‍♀️

But it will help childless people have a space to discuss certain things that they need advice of other childless people on.

I am GOBSMACKED at your reply.

are you trying again? IVF? are you going to adopt?

What business of it is yours? How fucking DARE you?

If MN mods are still watching this thread, please take note of comments like this one into consideration for a child free topic.

more than one person has explained the types of topics that could be discussed. it shouldn't matter to you anyway as you can just ignore as you do with the sex topic

I thought Peanutlatte's post incredibly tone-deaf and insensitive.

This is really what it's about. I see the same thing occaionally on BMN.

It is incredibly tone deaf and insensitive.

The reality is its what some of the posters on here who say in posts on various threads mean though. When they say childless people shouldn't be on mumsnet, what they mean is that if you were here for the conception or infertility boards, and you fail to get pregnant you have to leave.

They often don't want to admit that's what they are saying but it is what they are saying.

And in my case it was a late stage miscarriage. Late enough that the baby may have survived and it didn't. So I wonder how old a baby has to be before someone can count themselves as a mum enough for mumsnet. Or whether they think if a mum loses their baby/child they also have to leave.

Because that's essentially what it boils down to. No live child = no MN account.

None of which is to say that childfree people shouldn't be here of course. But I'm speaking from my experience as an infertile woman and some of the horrific things that have been said to me on here

Like it would be less sad and mean less if I die, because I don't have children.

It's crazy isn't it?

I love motorbikes, it's a huge hobby of mine, but I'm friends with lots of people who have zero interest in them. I don't dismiss the advice from my roofer because he doesn't have a motorbike and his hobbies are different to mine. Advice is advice.

I know it's not a like-for-like comparison but you get my logic!

So I don't understand why some parents here feel a childfree person shouldn't have a voice at all. I'm not going to tell you about breastfeeding because why would I?! Zero experience. But I have a great deal of life experience and empathy that can apply to hundreds of threads.

My Mum-friends love that I'm childfree, I can easily go along with their plans to suit them, babysit last minute/emergencies, and the last thing they want to chat about is their kids when we meet up - they can switch off and rant about work/partners/MILs/whatever on a completely equal footing to me. They don't dismiss my advice about property, for example (my area of knowledge) simply because I'm not a parent. That would be ridiculous.

Our lives are different in lots of ways, of course, but there are still MANY things in common.

Being mansplained to is equally infuriating no matter what your lifestyle is like!!

I don't see why it matters if the demographic shifts, personally.

If you want to talk to other mothers, there are lots of them on here...we are not in danger of being pushed out!! And most of the childfree posters probably choose not to spend that much time hanging around on the threads that are particularly aimed at parents at different stages of their parenting journey e.g. breastfeeding, parenting, teenagers etc. But I guess I don't really see why it matters in any case. If non-parents have something to contribute to a thread, I can't see why I would be any less interested in what they have to say than another parent?

From what I have seen here over the years, everyone's experience of parenting is different...every child is different, every mother is different and every family is different. Nobody else has the experience of being a mother to my child. So yes, there are things that I might have in common with other parents, but equally, there are things that lots of other parents write that are totally alien to me. I don't categorise the world into people who are mothers and people who are not mothers. I just like talking to interesting and intelligent people.

As for changing the name, I don't think it's necessary tbh. It is an established brand now, and in any case, changing it to "womensnet" would exclude male posters who are also welcome here as far as I'm concerned. Most people are well aware that some MNers are not mothers, and I'm sure that we all know that we can never really be sure of who we're talking to online anyway.

I can totally see that being childfree in a society that typically normalises having children and sees being childfree as an anomaly might create issues that people might want to discuss with others who have similar experiences, just as mums might want to congregate on some of the parenting boards. Why shouldn't that be here on MN? I can't see what harm it would do to anyone?

As a childless MNer I have never particularly felt the need for a specific board, but reading some of the horrible posts on here is persuading me that it is a good idea.

Totally agree that a robust moderation policy would be needed for childish posts from the aggressively childfree; I haven't seen many of these on MN but they're definitely a thing on Reddit (not a site I have any desire to return to).

This is what childfree people are saying too though? One couldn't imagine that a parent could go to a fair without a child, like this is wild to me, do they think parents of grown up children just sit around waiting for them to bring them out? Or parents of teens don't go out without them.

The horrible posts on this thread are not coming from the childfree.

This thread has only highlighted childish posts from the agressively with-child group so far.

I don't know, I haven't really seen any posts like that from childfree women on here. Not saying that they don't exist, but I don't really come across them.

I tend to assume that, if childfree women are choosing to post on a site called Mumsnet that they don't usually rule out the notion of having anything in common with people who are parents?

I wanted to report it, but I think people need to see the comments that has made OP's post necessary. It's not in our heads.

One couldn't imagine that a parent could go to a fair without a child, like this is wild to me, do they think parents of grown up children just sit around waiting for them to bring them out?

That’s totally misrepresenting what that poster said.

That poster pointed out that people without kids are thought of as having odd intentions if they go to, or partake in, things typically attended by kids with their parents. Village fairs for kids was their example but mine would be Disneyland - Disney adults get a lot of judgement for being in a place that’s for kids, not for them.

Nobody said anything about parents, because parents are expected to be in places where their kids are. And nobody has even remotely said that they can’t imagine parents going out without their kids, as that would be bonkers.

I find it odd that the mums on this thread who want to gatekeep seem to be OK with people who are childless but not child free.

I would guess that they like the sense of superiority that they have over the 'wannabe's' (to quote an astonishingly insensitive and offensive PP) and feel a bit threatened by those that have chosen a perfectly valid life path that differs to their own.

The thing is it's not always straightforward which group people fall into and the stereotypes of 'devastated at not having children' or 'gleeful and smug at not having children' are unhelpful

Take me for example, I have always been fairly ambivalent to having children, no strong feelings either way. We decided to let nature take its course and see what happened. As it turns out after 7 years it just never happened for us and now I am heading towards needing a hysterectomy.

Do I consider myself childless? Well no, because having kids is not the be all and end all. I am not 'less than' because I don't have them as I have a lovely family life with my husband (and yes we are a family)

There are things that it would be helpful to discuss with other people who don't have kids because sadly a lot of parents feel they are being helpful when they respond to a poster in my position and bang on about how it happened for them/not to give up/think about adoption but it is unhelpful and patronising

Most of that particular posters comments on this thread have been

I have only just realised that wasn't a parody post as an example of the inappropriate things people say to women struggling with infertility.

So @Peanutlatte since you think you’re the self appointed MN police how long do I have to wait whilst thinking about trying for a baby before I deregister? What if I want a baby but my partner doesn’t? What are your rules and timeframe for using the site in the multitude of complex and nuanced situations that relate to parenting but mean you don’t actually have children at the time?

after all i’m sure you’ve carefully considered this rather than simply made an uniformed ignorant post?

or very likely you haven’t.

if nothing else, many of the deeply unpleasant posters on this thread lobbying against a board for Posters Without Children are demonstrating exactly why it would be valuable!

@LilyMumsnet Having looked at the thread responses there are obviously some mixed feelings but there does seem to be good support from both childfree Mumsnetters and a fair number of mums; as well as some hostile posts which perhaps demonstrate why this board would be a valuable space; and some very reasonably expressed concerns about trolls, lack of use and so on.

Is this something MNHQ maybe could take forward for discussion - perhaps with a view to trialling a board to see if it works out?

The most popular name for the proposed topic seems to be 'Mumsnetters Without Children' so this space would be welcoming for the childfree by choice and the childless by circumstance - basically anyone who for any reason doesn't have children in their life.

I can see why some posters feel the topic wouldn't fit with the strapline but personally I feel it's a testament to the wide appeal of the site in the spirit of parenting advice but much more too.

It would be really great if MNHQ could at least consider this and let the people who have taken the time to post on this thread know the outcome.

I think it's a good idea and support it, just like the other boards you are free to post wherever you like, but there are certain issues that child free women face and I can imagine it's tedious listening to the opinions of people who don't understand what you are asking, but want to pile in with their useless advice anyway. I don't see how this harms anyone to add another space, it's not taking anything away from you.

Do I need to add in a mum?