Why is Sex topic now in Active?

[clarrylove]

It never used to be there before. It doesn't really seem appropriate with some of the titles.

It definitely was. And to protect the rest of the site from an influx of new posters who see it as MILF wank fodder.

Interesting that MN seem to have a deal with Ann Summers. Didn't MN have some sort of sponsorship/affiliate with LoveHoney a couple of years back? Though I don't remember it being as in-your-face.

I wonder why this is a route MN are determined to go down?

Yup, the absolute top priority when you’ve spent months being sick and getting fat and dealing with exhaustion and either had a big operation or you’ve given birth naturally and maybe torn or had stitches … is keeping the spark alive 🤢

As I explained earlier. You can't hide topics on the android app. Only individual threads and by then I have already seen them

I wonder why this is a route MN are determined to go down?

@kittensinthekitchen well we all know the answer to that, don't we? It's money! And what these recent discussions has proved is that there will be plenty of women who are quite happy to accept the less savoury side of the Sex topic. Who might even encourage its existence.

And I agree with @hryllilegur about the lack of strategic research. Unless, of course, the latest business strategy is about maximising revenue and profit, and doesn't take into account the impact on the brand or its current users.

I am, for the first time ever, since I joined in 2006, thinking about deregistering. Which is hard, as there is nowhere else (that I know of) which would fulfil the same role for me as Mumsnet.

... there will be plenty of women who are quite happy to accept the less savoury side of the Sex topic. Who might even encourage its existence.

In other words - I forgot to say this - those of us on this thread who are unhappy are probably posters MN no longer wish to see here. We're not the kind of user they see as their target audience in the future.

@BIWI thats really sad. There was room for all of us until this silly change. I hope you’re wrong and Mumsnet take heed of everyone’s comments

There is room for plenty of people here @Mermaidparades - just not sure what kind of people! And I wonder if Mumsnet really are taking heed of what's being said here? At the moment there's a deathly silence coming our way. I suspect they're waiting for this thread to reach 1000 posts and for it all to fizzle out, which is how they seem to deal with a lot of issues!

Surely the negative reaction to both Shriek’s Ears and the bizarre marketing campaign to new Mum’s to reignite their loins (despite being in pain and sleep deprived) will be the wake up call they need 🤞🤞🤞

I think we know how the discussion is going. 🤰🏻🤰🏼🤰🏽🤰🏾🤰🏿🤬🙈🙉✖️
💷💷💷💷💷✔️

I wouldn't be so sure.

Having worked in marketing/consultancy for many years, I suspect that there are management/brand consultants working with Mumsnet now, who have been tasked with making the site more profitable. Given what a financial nightmare they've suffered over the last couple of years.

And I'd guess that said consultants have been doing a lot of Cost Benefit Analysis work, aimed at increasing the user base of Mumsnet, so increasing not only the number of users but also the frequency of usage - more clicks = more money, etc.

All of this also means increasing their appeal to more advertisers, who want to target (in particular) women - at minimal cost. Using a site like MN is a lot easier than mainstream media, and brands like Ann Summers/Love Honey probably don't want to advertise their products that way anyway.

If they're financially-oriented consultants, the more qualitative side of the equation - i.e. the brand, its loyal/regular users - is probably deemed less important than the quest to build a broader usership. (Which is where the CBA comes in - will new users create more revenue than current users?)

I can see one of their PowerPoint slides already - Mumsnet has moved on since its initial days - no longer is this site simply for women, or just about babies and parenting - we should capitalise on that with affiliations and promotions that reflect this - which will, in turn, attract new users. There's also an opportunity to widen the usership even further, by targeting more male users.

Call me cynical, but ...

@BIWI no I wouldn’t say cynical. More like very astute! What a shame. Mumsnet was so important to me when my DC were small and I was stressing about their health, development etc. The support from other parents was invaluable. Then when I was getting back to a more relaxed version of me I loved Style and Beauty, Fitness, the Low Carb Bootcamp was my Bible at one stage!!

And now I’ve found a lovely tribe on the Sex Board who are like me and we’re happy to share our experiences with one another. We really aren’t freaks or weirdo’s, just a bit colourful 😬 I think I can speak for many of us when I say that we were happy to be left alone, we don’t want to shove our exploits in anyone’s faces (literally or figuratively). But again it’s cool to have a sounding board of kindred spirits.

'And I wonder if Mumsnet really are taking heed of what's being said here'

They must be. The ads for children's TV and clothes that had upset previous posters for some reason seem to have vanished.

Maye it isn't even in active anymore?

Unfortunately I suspect you're right @BIWI

It seems that MN users are seen as either "pearl-clutching prudes" or "cool girls/wives" when it comes to sex discussion. This, of course, is not the case. People, mostly women, come here to discuss all kinds of things, and sex is sometimes one of them, and it's great when you see support being offered to women by women.

When it comes to post-childbirth sex I think most of us like to hear "it's ok and normal if you don't want it right now (or ever again)" "it's fine and normal for your body to look and feel different" without the creepy Shrek's Ear vibrator advertising nudging us towards sex. That and with the "vulva-owner" language is completely the wrong tone for Mumsnet and it's hard to believe that the powers that be don't get that. If they don't, they are heading rapidly towards the Trust Thermocline as someone upthread said (look it up, it's interesting).

If the sex topic changes were made because of the Ann Summers collaboration then I'm fairly disgusted by Mumsnet. Yes, they had a thing with LoveHoney, but it wasn't intrusive like this. In fact having a part on the MN website recommending decent vibrators and discounts is fine IMO. These new developments are an intrusion though. Without wishing to sound melodramatic, it feels like a coercion or manipulation. Of course, marketers are constantly trying to get one over on us, but it's just not in the spirit of Mumsnet, as they like to say. That spirit is created with the users and is what makes this place unique, and you undermine our trust at your peril Mumsnet.

The changes to the sex topic are the milkshake that are bring all the lonely middle aged men boys to the yard. It's inevitable and depressing. This has always been a place where feminism has thrived, and where so many women have been taught about independence and boundaries by other women. LTB has become a cliché now, but there are many women who hear it here when they need to.

I have no idea whether I'm just shouting into the void but please @LilyMumsnet (and the rest) just listen to us!

@AnonymousHippopotamus please don’t stereotype the men on the board!!

As far as I can see, there's no doubt the changes have been made thanks to the collaboration(s); they explicitly link the MN 'open discussion' with the Ann Summers Pleasure Positivity project. It's been done in tandem with the promotions, and the tone is very strange. I never thought I'd read on here that a new mother would always be happy to be woken early after a bad night with the baby 'if it's for sex'. There are lines in their own promotion, and posts on the Sex Board, which would be deleted anywhere else on the site for trolling or being 'not in the spirit' (eg every single post on the sex chat thread!). Did they change the user registration guidelines so that social media marketers in their partnership companies could post on Sex and push it more prominently into Active, keeping it visible? To what extent is the tone being manipulated?

@Mermaidparades I ventured into the sex forum to see what was going on, and that seems to be the main demographic of the men, according to ages given. Maybe saying lonely is a bit rude of me, but spending your time talking to anonymous women about sex if you're in a fulfilling relationship suggests it to me.

Perhaps I'm a cynical old feminist, but I'm pretty sure the internet is full of places people can talk about sex or look at porn. Why come to Mumsnet? I can hazard a guess that the men are stereotyping the users of MN when they rock up here. Some of them are looking for hookups/sex chat/wank fodder. Some of them I'm sure are nice guys who just want to chat but I can't help feeling, even in that case, that the women are are being used as 'support humans'. Some of them are nice guys who just want to help and give advice, and that comes across to me as somewhat 'mansplainy'. And can easily veer into creepiness. Maybe I'm being harsh but I guarantee I'm not the only one who feels like this.

'but I can't help feeling, even in that case, that the women are are being used as 'support humans'

Oh please. Stop stereotyping women as gormless fools.

It is a sex board. Problems are discussed and folk chat. Stop trying to police it.

I suspect they're waiting for this thread to reach 1000 posts and for it all to fizzle out, which is how they seem to deal with a lot of issues!

which would be indicative of how out of touch MNHQ have become with the users. It won’t just fizzle out - they’ll get more threads. More thread derailment activity on the sex board.

I agree with you that they’ve probably been paying exactly the wrong kind of brand/management consultants - and doing exactly that thing where companies focus only on numbers of new users and alienate the previously loyal user base (who actually provide the majority of the site content they’re trying to sell).

At the moment, lots of people probably feel like you @BIWI - there’s nowhere that would seem to fill the MN shaped hole in their lives. So they struggle along even though MN isn’t really filling it for them either. MNHQ are taking it for granted that they can do what makes them money and those users won’t decide that hook up threads and prominent threads about rimming are actually just a step too far.

As the emergence of an hook up type thread indicates, sex content does tend to escalate over time - even more so when the measures in place to try to mitigate that (long waiting periods, not being in active, etc) are reduced or removed. Are we going to insist that users are frigid pearl clutches if they object to sex chat threads starting to use the photos function, for example? It might seem unthinkable now but the sex chat thread seemed unthinkable on MN too.

Please put the sex topic back where it belongs and take it out of active threads. We all know where it is should we wish to have a look (and yes, I have on occasion had a look for advice) but I'm actually starting to feel as if the whole topic is being pushed at me all the time - it's like being in an sexually abusive relationship and I am finding it triggering.

It's almost as if MN want to be the 'cool girlfriend' but have you thought (at MNHQ) about what a parent has to face when looking at the active threads while drinking their breakfast coffee and their child looks at what they're scanning on Active threads and then asks "what's rimming/anal/swinging mummy?". If MNHQ thinks that this scenario is ok and acceptable then MN has a much bigger problem internally and starting to look more like P.I.E./SA sympathisers/collaborators. I actually stopped visiting the sex topic some time ago because it was obviously being used by men looking to get off and some of it was stomach churning BUT if others enjoy this topic then that's ok and they know where it is if they want to visit. That's choice for you but this is pervading and pushing boundaries in the wrong direction. I opt to block ads so I rarely see any of the Love Honey/Ann Summers/sex toy ads unless I'm on my phone which is difficult to activate block ads and hide certain threads.
We all know that this issue (apart from what appears to be 'cool girlfriend' syndrome) is about money. Yes, there is MN Premium but it's too expensive. I don't want access to exclusive shite or to feel 'special' so don't need it and won't pay for it. I understand that times are hard for most of us. I have had looked for and found so much valuable advice on MN over the years and I hope that advice and support will be available to others in the years to come. I would happily make a voluntary donation of a pound or two monthly through PayPal/DD if it helped and I'm sure others would too. The current Premium thing probably isn't raising enough money and is a bit like the wanky M&S Sparks card - nice and shiny but completely useless for anything other than info harvesting!

If it's not taken off active soon then I will be gone and I've been on here for a long time.
And yes, I have hidden the sex topic but that only works if you're logged in ffs and I log in and out as I use several different shared devices and do not always have time to log in/out just for a quick five minute catch up.

Yes @AutumnLeavesFallingIntoPlace

Plus changing the criteria for the Sex forum from 90 days registration to 7 is quite some turn-about.

Another cynical thought that has occurred to me is that this place is gloriously rife with second-wave and gender-critical feminists, who have made quite some waves in the current climate. I am very grateful to Mumsnet for allowing the level of discussion that it does, and hope they continue to do so. It has however definitely cost them in terms of losing advertisers, and the GC feminists must be a thorn in their side in many ways. This whole sex-positivity vulva-owning stuff is exactly the kind of thing that would piss off any feminist worth her salt and make her wonder if this is the place for her. And the old, boring mantra sex sells will never fuck off, will it.

'If it's not taken off active soon then I will be gone and I've been on here for a long time.'

It isn't showing in my active and there are discussions currently active?

Im not policing it, I'm giving my thoughts about it. I haven't posted in there or reported anything, I just want it out of my face.

Well that's great, if it's the case @Janiie - but it doesn't deal with the sex chat issue, which - after all - is the main one we're discussing now

"I just want it out of my face" is how my last post should have ended.