How do we discuss the reality of parts of the UK absorbing large numbers of men from other cultures

[BernardBlacksMolluscs]

three threads deleted in FWR

come on now. People obviously want to talk about this

I thought the threads were largely honest and respectful

what are the rules of engagement MNHQ? This is real life for many women. How can they talk about it? please advise

That’s not what your sources say.
They say that statistically when it is child abuse the number of white offenders is slightly less than what would be proportionate to the population. 85% of offenders for 86% of the population. As in a null risk.

But when it is child sexual exploitation, which is what the poster was talking about, children statistically have over ten times the risk from Asian offenders than white offenders.
Population 86% white, but 38% of child sexual exploitation offenders= 0.44
Population 8% Asian, but 36% of child sexual exploitation offenders= 4.5

It doesn’t matter what the subject is, if you base a judgement on an entire population of people based on race, culture, sex, age etc then that is prejudice.

Please can you respond to my point upthread. Why is it that when people across the world have objected to the football world cup being held in Quatar because of it's human violations (a large part of which are against women), it is racist to point out that men who are immigrants from that region might share those attitudes towards women.

What is it about being 'an immigrant' that means that we can't talk about these things?

ALL men in this country need educating about women's rights, regardless of where they were born or their ethnicity or religion.

Why just the boys/men? Shouldn’t girls/women also be educated as to their rights? Otherwise we risk girls being raised into women who do not know they have rights. Do not know they can say no to an arranged marriage. Do not know that they can go to university. Do not know that they don’t have to give all their earnings to their parents or older brother. And so on.

Yes, a Life in U.K. class would be for all immigrants regardless of race, nationality, religion or sex. Everyone aged 12+.

So you don't think men from middle eastern countries who have been raised to believe than women are the property of men might view women differently (and treat them differently) from other men?

I believe that most men have underlying misogyny and that some cultures are more vocal about it but the actual danger they represent is the same.

I was reading a forum for Incels and it is frightening how they are regular people with normal jobs who walk amongst us but want to do incredible harm.

The USA think Mexican people are the problem.
Mexican people think people from Honduras are the problem.

The reason Middle Eastern countries are more dangerous for females is because the entire system is messed up.

Here individuals may be misogynistic but our system is not as bad as the systems over there.

I do believe our police force and government etc are misogynistic but just not as bad as other countries.

It’s only quite recently where we’ve addressed things like grooming gangs, peado rings, people like Jimmy Saville, peado churches - it wasn’t that long ago where this was all swept under the carpet and women feared to come clean.

I still think we’ve got a long way to go too.

I think CarefreeMe's post explains it best.

It’s the classing an entire group of people as something, that is offensive.

If I said all black men like basketball, that is offensive.

If I said all women over 40 are rubbish in bed, that’s offensive.

If I said all adults with autism are underlying sex offenders, that would be offensive.

It doesn’t matter what the subject is, if you base a judgement on an entire population of people based on race, culture, sex, age etc then that is prejudice.

If you replace your (or anyones) wording of ‘culture’ or ‘foreign’ with the word ‘autism’, then you’ll be able to see if it’s offensive or not.

The same way many women will have been raped with men with autism, it doesn’t mean that all autistic people are rapists and it’s not invalidating the victims to say so.

That’s not what your sources say.
They say that statistically when it is child abuse the number of white offenders is slightly less than what would be proportionate to the population. 85% of offenders for 86% of the population. As in a null risk.

The source I posted gave the percentages of the ethnicities of the offenders.
Not what it would be proportionate to the population.

So out if all the sexual offences, the percentages recorded were the ethnicity of the perpetrator.

You know it would not be possible that no white people were a risk to children when you can just watch the news and see otherwise.

It’s also 1/3 children who are abused and the majority are by a family member or close friend - again it would be impossible to have a null risk for white people offending lol.

ah

so you accept that there are some cultures that treat women worse than others

you accept that large groups of unattached men can be problematic

but noting that there is a combination of these two things happening in certain places in the UK and wanting women to have the opportunity to talk about the things that are happening to them as a result of this is racist?

good to know

I’m not coming from a shock horror refugees are awful perspective. I think it would be helpful to any immigrant to get some sort of class where they can learn our culture and how to interact socially with British people without causing offence. Even a basic how to tell whether someone is just being polite vs wouldn’t mind being a new friend. Different phrases we use like bobs your uncle, and don’t be a wet blanket. To say “sorry” when needing to reach past someone in a shop instead of “excuse me” or just reaching. The class could also support each other by talking about different things…like “my colleague made me a cup of tea and I said thank you and drank it with my biscuits, but now they seem angry with me? Why?”

I think I saw a program too the Germany was running that specifically was for single immigrant men to learn how to approach women and go on dates in a culturally acceptable way.

I’m confused why someone would be angry about the tea drinking? Maybe I need a class.

Even just learning about personal space and how you can’t lean up against another person on the Tube would be helpful. Some countries the personal space is much less or none at all! People literally used to shoulders touching, legs touching, front to back standing on transport. Most immigrants don’t want to accidentally offend or scare anyone.

It’s only quite recently where we’ve addressed things like grooming gangs, peado rings, people like Jimmy Saville, peado churches - it wasn’t that long ago where this was all swept under the carpet and women feared to come clean.

You are un-ironically saying this whilst saying that women pointing out that immigrants from certain cultures are more likely to treat women badly are racist. Wow.

The same way many women will have been raped with men with autism, it doesn’t mean that all autistic people are rapists and it’s not invalidating the victims to say so.

My teenage son is autistic. This is really really offensive. Autistic children are not brought up to treat women as lesser humans.

I was thinking more how it’s culture if a colleague makes you a cup of tea, then you offer to make them a cup of tea when it’s refill time and you usually would offer to share your biscuits when they brought the tea over.

Many immigrants wouldn’t know this and would drink the tea and munch away on biscuits and have no idea they’re offending their new colleague by not making the next round of tea and not sharing biscuits.

Nope, I never said wanting to discuss the subject made you racist, I said the wording of your question was, in direct response to your OP asking what was a reasonable way to raise the topic. I stand by my original point that your question is unnecessarily inflammatory and if you try to start to a debate in that way, it's no wonder it gets shut down.

But, actually, I do think it's racist to lump all immigrant men from certain cultures together in the way you and others have been on this thread. It's like saying all football fans are hooligan, all blondes are dumb. You can't ascribe certain behaviours to people just because of where they come from. There are plenty of immigrant men who've don't behave like that towards women and that's what me and other PP are trying to point out.

But, actually, I do think it's racist to lump all immigrant men from certain cultures together in the way you and others have been on this thread. It's like saying all football fans are hooligan, all blondes are dumb. You can't ascribe certain behaviours to people just because of where they come from. There are plenty of immigrant men who've don't behave like that towards women and that's what me and other PP are trying to point out.

But no one has done that.

All the ‘immigrants’ I know are bloody obsessed with feeding people. Can’t move for plates of food.

I do think it's racist to lump all immigrant men from certain cultures together in the way you and others have been on this thread

quote where I've lumped together all men from certain cultures

please and thank you

and I'm still not clear about which of the words in my question was racist. you don't seem to be able to explain that very well?

You can't ascribe certain behaviours to people just because of where they come from.

Actually I'll retract my previous statement. I have said that.

The Middle East is under fire about human rights violations in respect of the World Cup. A lot of it's criticism is about the way women are treated there. What makes you think that men who come to the Uk from the middle east suddenly lose those attitudes toward women when that is the way they have been brought up? Why is it racist to ask this question?

Don't misrepresent what I posted or what I think.

Please can you respond to my point upthread. Why is it that when people across the world have objected to the football world cup being held in Quatar because of it's human violations (a large part of which are against women), it is racist to point out that men who are immigrants from that region might share those attitudes towards women.

But it’s more than just attitudes towards women that a lot of people aren’t supporting FIFA holding the World Cup in Qatar.

It’s also about: Homophobia; it’s illegal to be gay in Qatar. You can serve a prison sentence right up to the death penalty (stoning). Migrant construction workers have been and are hugely exploited. They have a corrupt sponsorship programme that gives employers full control over the workers contracts, wages, accommodation etc. These things aren’t protected like ours are in the Western world. Thus resulting in poor living and working conditions and leading to deaths.

It isn’t the everyday people dictating these things. It’s their government. A very small proportion.

Now leading onto your point of it is racist to point out that men who are immigrants from that region might share those attitudes towards women. Yes, it is racist to assume men (or women) hold certain attitudes towards women just because of their race.

I’m not even sure why you are using Qatar as an example in your point because in Qatar most of the residents are ex-pars. The population of Qatar is:
Arab nationals 15%
Other Arab 13%
Nepalis 16%
Indian 24%
Filipino 11%
Sri Lankan 5%
Bangladeshi 5%

So when you say men who are immigrants from that region… do you mean all Arabs, Nepalis, Indians, Filipinos, Sri Lankans and Bangladeshis? You think all of them may have certain attitudes towards women because they live in Qatars region?

The thread topic has nothing to do with women's sex-based and transgender rights but has been posted in Sex and Gender.

If you want to start a reasonable discussion, maybe post a question that isn't inflammatory and racist in tone. The question at the start of this thread insinuates the vast majority of men granted immigration status in the UK are dangerous to the communities they now live among.

I explained it in my very first post. It's the TONE of your post and the insinuation that makes it racist, not specific words. The fact you seem incapable of grasping that you don't have to be blatantly racist to be racist is part of the problem.

What about Steve Wright, Peter Sutcliffe, Jake Davidson, Wayne Couzens and the ongoing list of men who kill or abuse women because of their misogyny.

It’s disrespectful to the victims of these men to say that certain cultures pose much more of a risk than other cultures, when their perpetrators were all British.

You can say that other cultures pose a risk but you cannot say that they pose more of a risk than any other culture, when there is no actual proof of that.

Posters have mentioned Eastern Asian men on here but there are many other men in countries who have sexist views too, as well as many individuals in this country.

So do we stop them all from coming here?

Do we kick out everyone with a penis, regardless of country of birth?

Surely the best thing to do would have a no tolerance policy on misogyny, whether you were born and bred here or you arrived last week.

ah the tone

something inexplicable that only you can hear and you can't explain

but if I run all my wording past you and make sure I'm using precisely the right tone then I can ask questions without you randomly accusing me of being racist but being completely unable to back it up?

I didn't say that women's rights was the only issue in the Middle East. I used Quatar and the world cup as an example.

In Quatar women can ONLY BE MARRIED WITH THE PERMISSION OF A MALE GUARDIAN who also get's to choose if she can study, drive and travel.

But nothing to see here.

But of course men from this region won't share those values because they are immigrants and we can't make assumptions. Even though I have first hand experience of the way men from the middle east treat women from my own lived experience.

This is NAMALT all over again.