Dear black people of mumsnet

[PatricksRum]

Ideas for a black section on mumsnet.

Should we have separate sections i.e black hair and beauty, black parenting, black cooking or a general black section?

Link to previous

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/4018383-black-section-on-mn

I'd also suggest an (is it called a sticky), info thread where there is some basic information of what it feels to be black person in the UK, how history has shaped this experience
Hmmmm - can a sticky cover this ? Seems more likely to cause dispute - could a sticky cover the basic information of the lives of all black people in the U.K.

I support you having a space and recognise that (some) black people may have experiences that are different from (some) white people. I was listening to a podcast earlier that was talking about the disproportionate risks suffered by black women during pregnancy, birth and postpartum. I guess there is space for a pregnancy and birth section to reflect the different needs and experiences of black women.

I also feel a bit sad that you (not necessarily all black women) may not feel you are able to fully participate across the vast network that is MN. But rather like the twaw vs women only spaces thing, I believe we should create as many separate spaces as people need to feel safe/able to express themselves as well as plenty of great spaces we can all be together.

I don’t mean to detract from your thread, I support what you’re trying to do.

I’ve followed one of your previous threads, didn’t comment much beyond my initial badly worded worry though. I have read them though, bit more closely this time! And I think I’ve maybe realised why this is attracting so much debate.

It feels like a rejection (needing a space away), even if that rejection has very valid foundations. People don’t like to be rejected so they tell you why they think you’re wrong for doing it. It also makes them question their own behaviour and their own actions, which can cause distress. The result comes out as aggression, bewilderment and a refusal to listen.

It absolutely sucks that black people need to deal with that. I know it absolutely wasn’t the point of this, but your threads have been a real eye opener for me, thank you. I hope you get what you need.

@ExTwitter

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Totally agree, racist tropes and white supremacy have been spilling out of every orifice here, and on your other thread. And the problem is that OP it would be funny if it was not so incredibly distressing, I agree that these threads have shown why a space is needed.

And I need to express what respect I have for you - you are doing more than fine - you are communicating so clearly and straightforwardly about what the problem is, and not allowing white egos and ignorance (and some plain hatred) to shame you or bully you out of that. Sorry that was an extremely long sentence. You are my hero, I wish I could speak like you!

@BoggledBudgie honestly I'm so grateful that somebody has offered a possible reason for all of this backlash. It's so confusing as the creation of the boards themselves won't affect anybody who isn't interested in them. It makes a bit more sense looking at it from your perspective. I hope perhaps they can come to terms with those feelings and join the discussion in a less conceited and aggressive way.

Evening, everyone. We've had to delete a lot of posts on both this and the Chat thread tonight so we're going to close them both just for a few hours overnight to avoid any trolls or troublemakers having a field day while there are fewer mods about.

Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas again. The thread will be back in the morning.

Copied and pasted my suggestion from the other thread: I have thought that one board might be a better idea, but then I realised that it would be too broad and encourage more criticism from people who think it's just black people wanting to talk to other black people about issues that concern anybody and everybody.

I definitely think it would be better to decide on four or fewer main topics specific to the black community, and then perhaps a miscellaneous section until more demand is revealed.

I really hope that space is given over to dedicated topics.

Asked MN to delete my comment as i accidentally copied multiple comments in it. Sorry. My actual comment.

I like the setup of the Feminism board with topics under.

I haven't RTFT but my suggestions for topics are as follows.

-Cookery/Recipes and Ingredients (anyone know where to get fresh pumpkin leaves?)

-Haircare (please I have lost my way, what to do with my TWA)

-Education (private or not, abroad or in the UK, more diverse schools vs less diverse schools?)

-Skincare (hyperpigmentation due to acne and eczema is the bane of my existence, our skin scars differently and also there are antibiotics that increase black skin's photo sensitivity or even have hyperpigmentation as a side effect - had to school my doctor on that one)

Pregnancy and Maternity Care

Travel - would like not to be racially abused, called a monkey, monkey sounds made at me, people inviting themselves to touch my hair, refused service (all things that have happened) etc.,while on holiday. Also had some surprise trips to destinations I would never have considered so interested in where other black people have travelled and not had problems

I suppose some of these topics could be discussed in chat and if there is demand have their own section.

A "Did that just Happen?" Topic might be nice too. Check in with other people about your experience with microaggressions or racism and be that double take you sometimes need before deciding how to deal with the situation. Could just be discussed in chat though.

Limiting to an initial 4 topics sounds great

My comment from deleted thread I think it's important also for the context why BAME is a misleading term.

I don't know what the experiences of others are, but my kids who are mixed race hate the “BAME” label because it means that when statistics regarding the treatment of people of colour are released, they actually end up looking better – due to the inclusion of groups who aren’t as poorly treated as the black community, and don’t have the same history.

That is to say, my kids aren't mixed black, and their lived experiences have nothing to do with the black community. They are mixed race but have never experienced the same sort of racism or been disadvantaged in the same way as their black peers, yet they are on paper part of the BAME label.

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt I LOVE the "did that just happen" idea! It's so on point!

I'm really enjoying this

@Merename Thank you for your lovely post.
I did read it last night with a tear, thankfully the board was freezed when I read it.
Hope you are well, and thank you

@Dastardlythefriendlymutt

Asked MN to delete my comment as i accidentally copied multiple comments in it. Sorry. My actual comment.

I like the setup of the Feminism board with topics under.

I haven't RTFT but my suggestions for topics are as follows.

-Cookery/Recipes and Ingredients (anyone know where to get fresh pumpkin leaves?)

-Haircare (please I have lost my way, what to do with my TWA)

-Education (private or not, abroad or in the UK, more diverse schools vs less diverse schools?)

-Skincare (hyperpigmentation due to acne and eczema is the bane of my existence, our skin scars differently and also there are antibiotics that increase black skin's photo sensitivity or even have hyperpigmentation as a side effect - had to school my doctor on that one)

Pregnancy and Maternity Care

Travel - would like not to be racially abused, called a monkey, monkey sounds made at me, people inviting themselves to touch my hair, refused service (all things that have happened) etc.,while on holiday. Also had some surprise trips to destinations I would never have considered so interested in where other black people have travelled and not had problems

I suppose some of these topics could be discussed in chat and if there is demand have their own section.

A "Did that just Happen?" Topic might be nice too. Check in with other people about your experience with microaggressions or racism and be that double take you sometimes need before deciding how to deal with the situation. Could just be discussed in chat though.

Limiting to an initial 4 topics sounds great

Love these! Especially the Did that just happen?

Is there any possible way that @MNHQ can create a thread asking for a discussion about developing this new section? Making it clear from the offset that arguments against the idea are to be emailed and not posted on the thread?

@AMemeByAnyOtherName

Is there any possible way that *@MNHQ* can create a thread asking for a discussion about developing this new section? Making it clear from the offset that arguments against the idea are to be emailed and not posted on the thread?

Could be a good idea.

I'd be lying if I didn't think that these posters would start posting on that thread too. But worse, they would nag HQ to respond on that thread.

Why can't they just leave us to discuss

Advice from feminist experience

You don't need to respond to anybody.

If you do, consider not quote or naming them. You can say instead " some people think ...."

@PatricksRum I imagine, as they say, it's because they're very concerned about us. They don't want the board to fail, I guess that would be embarrassing? They don't want the board to cost MNHQ more than it's worth. They're genuinely concerned about us getting trolled. And of course we have to acknowledge the problem that it's a racist idea. I think they're the same people who campaigned against scotsnet and craicnet but I'm not entirely sure, I haven't been a member here long enough.

I'll be following that advice to the letter, midge. Thank you.

PatricksRum

Why can't they just leave us to discuss

Because its an open forum.

If you do get your desired section the best they (MNHQ) will do is as they have done with other sections and take it out of Active and trending etc.

Your main issue is going to be being able to promote the new section without leaving it open to everybody on the internet.

And someone said something up thread about it being a "safe space".
The unfortunate truth is that it won't be that due too the nature of the internet and that MN is an open forum.

A dedicated area will get fewer passing visitors dropping in racist remarks or diverting the threw
A dedicated area will be easier to monitor and control. There are already a few boards with special arrangements in place
A dedicated area can keep slower threads going, which is ideal for topics where the user base is smaller
Difficulty in keeping racists off the board is not a good reason for not having a board for the victims of racism . It means we must work harder
Most importantly, In a dedicated area there is no need to give a huge amount of cultural/racial context

@FrippEnos

PatricksRum

Why can't they just leave us to discuss

Because its an open forum.

If you do get your desired section the best they (MNHQ) will do is as they have done with other sections and take it out of Active and trending etc.

Your main issue is going to be being able to promote the new section without leaving it open to everybody on the internet.

And someone said something up thread about it being a "safe space".
The unfortunate truth is that it won't be that due too the nature of the internet and that MN is an open forum.

I disagree.

Hence the requests for a black moderator. Or, at minimum, some added talk guidelines.

The comments trying to derail/ from racist posters have been moderated very well.

We all appreciate it's an Internet forum. The question is why can't some people, especially those with nothing to add, leave us to discuss our area.

Wait, no, hang on a minute.

Q: Why can't they just leave us to discuss?

A: Because its an open forum.

You're deliberately choosing to discuss irrelevant matters on a thread because it's an open forum and you CAN do so?

Do you also post about contraception fails on infertility boards?

Consider this a formal request to stop derailing this thread. Thanks.

PatricksRum

See a need, fill a need.

I hope that you do get your area.

And I hope that it is as safe as it can possibly be.

I am just pointing out (very badly) that I agree that it will need extra protection (for want of a better word).

The question is why can't some people, especially those with nothing to add, leave us to discuss our area.

The only answer I have I have is because that is what people are like.

The SN, WRs, even some aspects of the education board have more protection. So I don't see why you shouldn't be able to get the same adjustments made.

I think common decency usually stops people posting on boards that are not correct for the topic they are interested in

AIBU and chat are the main places where that is less true,p