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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

The deletion of the Upfield thread on AIBU

255 replies

PencilsInSpace · 11/10/2019 22:05

Deletion message: Hi all, as there is already an active thread about this subject on the Feminism boards we're going to close this one.

I don't understand or agree with this decision.

  1. people often start threads on the same subject on different boards - is it a new rule that there can only be one?

  2. Lots of posters hide FWR so might not know what has happened

  3. Upfield made their insinuations against all of MN, not just FWR

Can you say a bit more about your decision please?

OP posts:
TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 09:33

Bertrand I've just had a look but can't find the thread, I didn't post on it or follow it. It was in the last week or so and many of the regulars posted on it.

CircleofWillis · 12/10/2019 09:34

Has MNHQ commented yet?

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 09:36

I’m not wanting to try and be the the thread police here- but might it be possible to have this discussion without talking about trans issues? It seems to me that there are many other things feminists should be talking/campaigning about that are being completely swamped by the trans debate. I agree that it’s incredibly important, but it’s not the only important thing.....

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 09:38

“ Bertrand I've just had a look but can't find the thread, I didn't post on it or follow it. It was in the last week or so and many of the regulars posted on it.”

Is it worth ASing a couple of the regulars you remember and seeing if you can find it that way?

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 09:40

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo

So maybe you could show where exactly I have said that?

I answered a poster who said that mn impose a set of rules and some posters don't agree with those rules, post comments which break the rules and get deleted but it's just a difference of opinion.

My point is that many arguments could be termed a difference of opinion. However, some people will consider those opinions offensive and so will agree with the rules.

Personally, I find trans phobic comments offensive and agree with MN when they delete them. I don't consider that to be a "difference of opinion" in the same way that I don't think racism is just a "difference of opinion".

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 09:42

Is it worth ASing a couple of the regulars you remember and seeing if you can find it that way?

Or, you could ask them yourself 8f you want to read the thread? How do you suggest I ask them? PM them?

Pinkyyy · 12/10/2019 09:43

What does FWR stand for?

Datun · 12/10/2019 09:43

I don't understand why HQ deleted that thread, either. Since it was pro them and anti people who want to shut them down.

In terms of FWR - behind one other board, AIBU, I think, it's the most popular access point for the entire site.

In terms of it being rude, or viperish, I wandered onto AIBU the other day to find someone had called someone else a pathetic bitch, over something so unutterably innocuous, it was difficult to believe.

But what is really getting my goat is the assertion, or more likely assumption, that deletions on FWR directly correlate to transphobia.

For example,

So many posts get deleted and many posters have been banned. How does this happen if the comments weren't deemed offensive?

And

We yes. But many of us agree with those rules and think that posting against them, is offensive, vitriolic or abusive.

When this is the reality:

Oh drat, I accidentally said something factual and true without using approved language. Sorry MNHQ.

I'll rephrase.
A large person of the sex that produces small gametes known as sperm barges past two much smaller people of the opposite sex (the sex that produces eggs) grabbing the microphone from the older egg producer sex person and literally shoving the small child (who is of the sex that can be criminalised for attempting reproductive autonomy) in an attempt to dominate the entire proceedings.

There.
No talk guidelines broken, no accidentally calling sperm-producers by male pronouns, and in accordance with MNHQ rules I've only mentioned biological sex where it is permissible and relevant without resorting to language like man, woman, girl.

Please don't delete this version MNHQ.

Reduced to entire paragraphs that make no sense unless you're willing to forensically interpret them word by word.

But yeah, that's 'vitriol'. 🙄

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 12/10/2019 09:43

I agree but there's also the issue where the very definition of 'woman' is changing rapidly.
It's becoming extremely difficult to discuss feminism in the wider context with this ambiguity hanging over us all.
How do we work together for women's rights when people don't even agree what a woman is?

BertrandRussell · 12/10/2019 09:43

Sorry- I meant put a couple of the names into Advanced Search and see what comes up.

HumberElla · 12/10/2019 09:44

I find trans phobic comments offensive and agree with MN when they delete them. I don't consider that to be a "difference of opinion" in the same way that I don't think racism is just a "difference of opinion

Do you believe humans can change sex?

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 09:44

I’m not wanting to try and be the the thread police here- but might it be possible to have this discussion without talking about trans issues? It seems to me that there are many other things feminists should be talking/campaigning about that are being completely swamped by the trans debate. I agree that it’s incredibly important, but it’s not the only important thing.....

But this thread is about the Flora issue, which is as a result of the trans issue, no?

RufusthebewiIderedreindeer · 12/10/2019 09:45

Bertrand

Thread link www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3711740-Once-again-Im-having-a-bad-day

TequilaPilates · 12/10/2019 09:47

Datun

Maybe you need to post the deleted comment which then led the poster to post that long winded comment, so that people can decide if the original comment was offensive or not?

Somerville · 12/10/2019 09:47

What does FWR stand for?

Feminism and Women’s Rights. Which was the old name for the Feminism section, and the acronym stuck.

NoCauseRebel · 12/10/2019 09:48

So instead of discussing the actual issue here which caused the thread deletion, members of the FWR boards are here bitching about why people aren’t following the FWR boards and therefore gaining awareness of the deleted thread which could easily have been discussed on the main boards?

Newsflash, people are hiding FWR in their droves. You may not like it but they are. And in the meantime when there is apparently a mainstream issue which could have been brought to the attention of the MN users on the main boards, you know, the ones who do hide FWR, the FWR radicals highjack a thread wanting to discuss why this can’t be discussed on the main boards to challenge people over their reasons and rights to ignore the FWR topics.

And so the FWR members have very successfully blocked the discussion of this issue on the main boards well done. Are you proud of what you’ve achieved?

We’re five pages in now and still no-one has actually said in plain English what this discussion was about.

Somerville · 12/10/2019 09:53

Every MNer should be free to hide any topic they like. Personally my favourite two topics are Politics and Feminism, which I believe are two of the most hidden but also two of the major entry points into MN, after AIBU and Active. (??)

FWR and Politics are both full-on, with highPersonally all the most unpleasant things I’ve read on man have been in AIBU

Aberhonddu · 12/10/2019 09:53

@TequilaPilates
Your comment at 9.47 is quite possibly one of the most ridiculous comments I've seen.
If Datun posts the comment again, it will be deleted, why do you want others to decide if it's offensive?
The moderators of FWR decided it was. So it's been deleted

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 12/10/2019 09:53

@TequilaPilates

That is why so many of us rely on science and biology when referring to sex. It cannot be conflated with other terms.

Woman = adult human female (XX chromosomes I.e female right down to the cellular level and impossible to change)

Man = adult human male (XY chromosomes I.e male right down to the cellular level and equally impossible to change)

No difference of opinion there sorry!

Datun · 12/10/2019 09:54

Maybe you need to post the deleted comment which then led the poster to post that long winded comment, so that people can decide if the original comment was offensive or not?

It's not necessary for me to do that, Tequila. Even if I could. And guess what, it would get deleted. And I would have a strike against me!

You can see the words which would have been substituted.

I frankly couldn't care less if people, who constantly and permanently benefit from feminism, don't want to read about it. I do care when they misrepresent what feminists are saying.

Somerville · 12/10/2019 09:57

Toddler grabbed my phone Hmm

Last paragraph should say:

FWR and politics are both full-on, but FWR has more laughs in between deep discussion - like the rest of MN. Politics stays more focussed, and more rows break out. But personally all the most unpleasant things I’ve read on MN have been on AIBU and there have been times I’ve had that hidden.

It would be nice to hear from HQ about this deletion.

NoCauseRebel · 12/10/2019 09:57

Jesus Christ. So now we’re transcending into another fucking trans thread.

It won’t be hard to see why this thread too will be deleted and it won’t be because it’s a TAAT.

since no-one actually wants to discuss the alleged flora thing there’s no reason to think that it’s important. It’s not about trans after all.....

Whatwouldbigfatfannydo · 12/10/2019 09:59

@NoCauseRebel

A picture of the offending tweet was posted a couple of pages back.

Sorry if you were too distracted bashing other women to notice. Either that or a picture isn't plain enough for you. Biscuit

Somerville · 12/10/2019 10:00

alleged flora thing

The evidence is all still easy available on Twitter. And it is being widely discussed, both on there and on the FWRs - linked up thread.

NoCauseRebel · 12/10/2019 10:04

@Whatwouldbigfatfannydo I am VI as are others on MN. Therefore a picture is useless to me and many others.

The original question of this thread was to ask why the discussion on the main boards was removed. MN should definitely answer that, but the fact that this topic has been highjacked by members of a group whose discussions are predominantly hidden by other members to talk about why people should follow them/why trans is a bad thing/why everyone else is uneducated yada yada yada has actually taken away the entire point of the discussion itself.

So frankly, thanks to FWR, I have lost interest and could care less about Flora and whatever it is they’ve supposedly said/done.