“Racism” towards the Irish on here

[Giantbanger]

Can we please talk about it and can you please get your mods some training.

There was a thread that stood from yesterday. The op was goady and people were reporting the fuck out of it from yesterday.

It went this morning because the op was previously banned for being goady. No surprises there then.

But it contained a post from a member of MNHQ that really bothered me and I would like to discuss.

Add message | Report | Message poster EstherMumsnet (MNHQ) Mon 29-Oct-18 19:43:38
Hello!
Thanks for all the reports on this one. We'd like to leave this up as it's a pretty interesting discussion - one for the colonial/post colonial literature experts perhaps (yes - we know there's an argument over whether Irish literature counts as such!) - so please keep to the spirit of the site when discussing this and make your points politely. Thanks

So if there’s a “racist” thread about the Irish, it is an interesting discussion and the Irish need to be polite when telling racists they are racists.

(And Yes. I know in the dictionary definition Irish isn’t a race. It’s a subset ethnicity of Caucasian but the term is used more broadly in general use than the dictionary definition.)

This thread really is an example of how not to deal with a complaint.

They don’t want to. Expected that and the usual comments but I’m really shocked by just how angry some people are at being told it is offensive to some people. The people coming out with downright lies are amazing. That’s just wilful ignorance, don’t know, don’t want to know. They are the problem.

Fair enough @Giantbanger

This is pointless, this, these threads on the boards.

The best answer is to go to the external agency whose job it is under the law to determine these things and ask them what they think and what they would advise.

We’ve tried. And not got anywhere. So I think I just want to take it to the relevant people.

I originally came on this thread out of interest and eye rolling a bit, but then I read what everyone had to say and thought that you all were making very valid points and that Mumsnet's responses were totally inadequate. Why has everything got so extreme that ppl just double down on opinions

I’m still completely baffled that MNHQ are clinging so firmly to that phrase. Is it really worth all this to them? I don’t understand it.

Yes! Why is it so important? Are they worried that capitulating on this would open a floodgate of some sort?

I would have thought an appropriate response would have been "thanks for bringing that to out attention. We hadn't considered the offense it would cause to some and will amend."

Simple

I don’t know but I don’t think these threads will achieve anything now, from hq have said.

I’m just despondent but I’m going to go external and see what the Equakity Commission say. Even if they could just come and do some training for the mods on unconscious bias and how to mitigate it.

But these, this, now is a waste of time. And will only raise pressure of both sides.

*Equality

*What

Exactly.

And tbh even if there was never an Irish connection to that phrase I can still see the potential for offence amongst other groups. How MNHQ can’t see how it’s innapropriae to use in their talk guidelines is beyond me. There are so many ways to say something is unnacceptable without using a phrase derived from the exclusion or corralling of oppressed minorities.

I don't understand the Irish posters worrying about being seen in a bad light because their fellow countrywomen are bring this up in a perfectly peaceful way.

'which the English modestly considered synonymous with civilization itself.'

I'd remove the modestly. Unecessary, imo.

Do you think though that there are so many "English" people (me) who have not a drop of English blood (Scots and Irish) in them that offence is not meant.

I agree that the minute you realise that a term is offensive you stop using it but there is something about emigrants who have left Ireland (or anywhere) in a different era and taken attitudes with them. Almost frozen in time.

I'm not excusing anything, and especially not offialdom, just saying that many English people (especially in London) are actually of Irish heritage and may possibly feel a little more comfortable being a little jocular/offensive than they should.

thigh I'd have thought it would be offensive to people like you who would have grown up with Irish parents who probably had things said to them.

Jane i do agree, especially having a very stereotypical Irish surname in England throughout the Troubles, it was very tiresome. But my parents (and me) will poke a little fun which, with my English accent, will appear more offensive. You are all correct though, the tide should have turned a long time ago. Along with the deep fried mars bars shit for the Scots.

well, I've now had a post on another thread deleted because I enunciated anti Irish language and another poster has admitted reporting it for that - and the deletion message by HQ says that I requested deletion. I did not.

I’ve been reporting that deleted post of mine since half five this morning and I haven’t had a reply.

I’d have brought it to Twitter a long time ago.

In my view, Mumsnet it a commercial entity. ‘If you don’t pay for it, you are the product.’ The Irish demographic on MN is difficult to target advertising towards because companies often aren’t looking to target outside of the UK. Targeting specific demographic markets within the UK is much easier than trying to encompass the same demographic in Ireland too. Look at MN Local for example. Because Irish MNer’s offer little in terms of revenue streams for direct targeted marketing and click based advertising, they server very little purpose to MN as a ‘product’.

Look at other minority groups that MN have come to champion and consider them in terms of advertising, marketing and PR potential it becomes very apparent why MN are championing them.

I just can’t get my head around that posting examples of anti Irish language is delete worthy AND that it’s put down as at my request when I did not request it. And 4 hours since I started reporting I’ve had nothing. So much for moving faster.

So. Posting examples of anti Irish language is now against talk guidelines. Must be. Because I was reported for it and the post was deleted.

Apparently the post was reported because another mnetter thought I had put it on the wrong thread. Nothing to do with silencing Irish opinions.

Loads of my reports from the last week have been ignored, including my self-report for being BTP

Thatposter reported me because they thought I had posted on the wrong thread. I hadn’t. I was enumerating more anti Irish language. And I was then deleted / removed. They were tone policing minorities to drive them off the thread, and reporting so that MN would delete.

The whole op was a prime example of the wide eyed innocent goady fuckery the Irish are trying to get haitchq to take notice of.

For the record I don’t think for one second that poster thought I’d posted on the wrong thread. They wanted a thread of bad things the English are called so they could say the English have it bad too. And I was reported to remove the nasty things that are said about the Irish.

this is really not ok!!

FWIW I’ve had a post deleted on an unrelated thread last night that I asked for an explanation for, Hq responded this morning and within about 30 minutes of emailing them they have reinstated my post. The post deleted was me asking someone why they were trying to stir up a row again between me and another poster that I had left 22 hours previously. hQ decided my post was troll hunting. in the space of a few emails in the last half hour they have decided to reinstate it. Proof they are deliberately ignoring your emails giant.