Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

I'd like to commend GibbertyFlibbert for his posts, on this thread and others.

On other threads, his dogged persistence with what we might charitably call his ' non-standard ' understanding of 'science', as well as giving some of us a good laugh, has shown up attempted justifications of the 'transwomen are women' theme for what they are - wholly vacuous as well as curiously risible.

Now on this thread GibbertyFlibbert points up for us what is wrong with Mumsnet's proposed 'moderation of trans rights ...'

' Sweeping negative generalisations about any group, including trans people and gender-critical feminists, won’t be tolerated ', so says Mumsnet ...

... but as GibbertyFlibbert helpfully points out, ' The accusation that trans women aren't female is about as sweeping a negative generalisation as it gets '.

C'mon Mumsnet. Are you really going to (in GibbertyFlibbert's ever-moderate and balanced phraseology) ' allow [! sic] people to refuse to accept trans women as women '?

I refuse to accept trans women as women (except in the sense in which sea horses are horses and red herrings a kind of fish, of course). Are you going to allow this refusal? Hein?

Right. Well I'll be using MTF and FTM, or MtT and FtT. These are the acronyms that medical professionals use.

That's Mutt and Futt then....

Oh that did make me laugh.... Best I had come up with was Transgender Males which is factual but probably confusing....

What does MtT and FtT stand for?

I'm less keen on MtF and FtM as it does suggest you can change sex... Male to Female and Female to Male I presume?

Other than banning us I'm not sure what Gibb is expecting MNHQ to do. Hypnosis? Mind control laser beams?

Fuck, are all the TRAs here actually women in marriages with people who used to be known as (people in a long description in my post about two hours ago).

Because that would explain things.

I think gender reassigned male and gender reassigned female work. Or GRM and GRF.

There have been a couple of names popping up on these threads constantly for days now, almost like it is their job or something to argue, derail, talk nonsense until we get bored of their flat earth thinking, and give up because we have kids to look after, jobs to do.

echt - good point about this thread not being in 'trending'. Is this another MNHQ u-turn?

I haven't read all the FT.

I read the statement and about ten pages in.

Gave up after that as I've I peaked Newspeak.

I think yes Assigned. I don’t think men would devote so many hours to proselytising on someone else’s behalf to try and make the world right for them.

What does MtT and FtT stand for?

Male to Trans and Female to Trans. Reflecting the fact that, as you said, people can't actually change sex.

‘are all the TRAs here actually women in marriages with people who used to be known as (people in a long description in my post about two hours ago).‘

I really don’t think they are female at all, what actual female would be motivated enough to be on here pushing TRA ideology for as long as they have? Much more likely they are regular TRA’s in my honest opinion.

I posted on page 1. 900 plus comments later and we are no clearer. No feedback from MN and it's made the news (apologies if posted)

www.theguardian.com/media/2018/jun/13/mumsnet-transgender-row-feminism-tougher-forum-rules

The fact that making sweeping negative statements has never been what this forum is about is by the by it seems

9toenails, I am a woman

Trans women are not female anymore than snow isn’t hot, the sky is green and the earth flat.

They’re people. People who were born either male or female (intersex is not trans). How they personally identify doesn’t change this.

And identity is not something you can impose on someone else.

People identify you based upon what you do, as much as what you say.

I am a woman

But are you the sort of woman who has had to get the sex field changed on her passport? Or the sort of woman whose passport has always been correct?

GibbertyFlibbert Wed 13-Jun-18 21:39:48 9toenails, I am a woman

The new MN rules require that you share this belief or be silent.

In the Guradian article Baker says: However, the proposed policy to also moderate terms such as cisgender [identifying with the gender one has at birth] show that the forums may not be set up to enable balanced discussion on gender identity

I'm taking it that Baker actually means, inside the weasel words, is that women will not have to put up with being called cisgender by others. Which is a pisser for him/her.

It's almost like a lot of posters on here don't think the FWR boads can exist without being free to slur trans people!

There's thousands of topics of feminism in the modern world, there's infinite number of issues affecting women worldwide.

And yet all hell breaks loose and hundreds of posts complaining (far more than discussed repeal the 8th) because something more akin to treating trans people with common decency has been suggested.

I agree.

Okay for me it is

What does MtT and FtT stand for?

Male to Trans and Female to Trans. Reflecting the fact that, as you said, people can't actually change sex.

Rather sad.... It is only today I have stopped calling them transwomen... this aggressive takeover of our spaces, our words, our lives has made me rather intransigent.....

And I am so very very sad for those caught in the crossfire.... the transsexuals who have lived peaceably alongside us for many years.... the women in refuges and prisons under attack.... the sportswomen - or especially those girls and women put off sport by seeing their victories claimed by male bodies....

birdbandit
There have been a couple of names popping up on these threads constantly for days now, almost like it is their job or something to argue, derail, talk nonsense until we get bored of their flat earth thinking, and give up because we have kids to look after, jobs to do.

And their nonsensical ramblings have probably peak trans'd more lurkers than the rest of us put together

I have been deleted for saying it before so I will likely be deleted again but on the interwebs no one knows you are a potato.
However: 12th rule of misogyny: Women's ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

LOL! MNHQ bend over backwards in the attempt to come up with a policy that will seem as neutral as possible and still get called out for not silencing one side only.

You can't create a compromise when one side has already decided that they will only accept unconditional surrender.

Aridane
2 points.
Most of the trans threads are started by transgender advocates.

Transgender advocates have declared women's rights to be anti-trans, and are perpetrating a fraud on schools by changing the wording of the Equality Act to include gender and exclude sex as a protected category.

This is having a dramatic effect on women and girls.