Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

Why Barack that would be a woman of course... unless they identified as a man.

It's not heresy to disagree with trans ideology and it is not written in any law. It's not right to demand validation from everyone...no one has a right to expect it. If someone is sure of something, they don't need the validation of others.

we will have to see what happens but if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women

Fucking. Hell.
We should not be allowed to refuse?
This is actually quite frightening, that someone would want this.

Wait - woman = an adult with female anatomy???

I am so disappointed that MN has kow towed to this bollox.

Female is related to anatomy and woman is related to identity

No.

Female is related to sex in all dimorphic species and woman is related exclusively to sexually mature female humans.

we will have to see what happens but if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women

I don't.

Bring on the electric cattle prods, thought police!

So am I being mean when I tell someone I do not share their belief in an imaginary being, and should they be allowed to force me to believe then?

Popchyk male and female are descriptive words which describe anatomy. Man and women are words which people use to express their gender identity. Or which are used as a default when a person's anatomy matches their gender identity.

The accusation that trans women aren't female is about as sweeping a negative generalisation as it gets.

We will have to see what happens but if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women then we have made no real progress.

Is it me, or does this sound very authoritarian? Talking about “allowing” people to “refuse to accept” a proposition that is clearly scientifically false As if it’s a bad thing?

Thing is, Mumsnet doesn't actually have any control over what readers/commenters accept because a website can't control what people think. It can only control what they can and can't say. If they're prevented from saying certain things they'll still think them.

Yep. It’s not just the language usage that’s trying to be policed here. It’s thoughts. And that won’t work, but I still think it’s frighteningly authoritarian.

Most trans women will have female on their driving licence and passport.
How weird is it that the same people who say this also say most gender reassigned do not have these documents because of how difficult it is for the gender reassigned to get these documents.
Pick one.

MNHQ are showing colossal bad faith by not having this thread popping up on "Trending".

Talk to Gibb, daimbars, who doesn't accept any distinction between woman and female at all and insists that trans people with Y chromosomes are female.

To identify as a something is not to be a something.

Popchyk male and female are descriptive words which describe anatomy. Man and women are words which people use to express their gender identity. Or which are used as a default when a person's anatomy matches their gender identity.

Which people do that, daim? Lay people? Gender reassigned peope and transgender advocates?

Hmmmm
female is the biological term (and interestingly the one the police use - as in looking for two females and one male)
woman is what is used in normal conversation - as in 51% of the world's population are women.... women suffer.... women get raped.... women are murdered at the rate of 2 per week in the UK.... women are XX chromosome-bearing people.... readily identifiable in almost every case even by a two year old!

JuzzaL I agree gender and sex are two different things. I consider myself to be in a same sex marriage but I hadn't thought about a woman with a trans women. I would imagine they would say 'same gender marriage' instead.

And here, MNHQ, we have the goal:

we will have to see what happens but if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women

You have been warned time and time again that there is no compromise possible with people who believe in the trans ideology. The fact that you will even go as far as to appease the minority by policing what your own users say, says volumes about where you stand. And you should be ashamed of yourself as a website dedicated to women.

Btw, I propose feminized males instead of TIM. Shortened to F male. To also give credit to the amount of surgery some have had.

Mumsnet have got this really, really wrong - especially considering the general reaction to the Huntley case. Woman is the specific name for adult human female and to just say 'female' would leave the reader wondering 'female what?'. What are the TAs going to do if we don't capitulate? Nothing, that's what. Stop indulging them. Very few online sites do.

The accusation that trans women aren't female is about as sweeping a negative generalisation as it gets.

That is not a generalisation.

There is nothing negative about a fact. Being negative is how it seems to be perceived by some.