Mumsnet moderation of trans rights and gender critical issues

[JustineMumsnet]

Hi all,
We've given lots of thought to our moderation policies around trans rights and sex and gender issues and thought it would be a good idea to articulate where we stand in the form of a clear statement, so everyone can be clear about our moderation going forward. You can find it here. Hope it provides a helpful reference point. Thanks.

The accusation that trans women aren't female

Not an accusation...fact

female,..of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs, distinguished biologically by the production of gametes (ova) which can be fertilized by male gametes.

No real progress Gibberty?

We Gibberty?

Accusations?
Biology is not an accusation.

"We will have to see what happens but if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women then we have made no real progress."

"We"? Who's "we"?

Can MN provide a glossary of acronyms etc with definitions, and a list of banned terms? Also an explanation of pronouns, "they" can make a sentence confusing.

And I'm trying to make sense of all this and am a bit older than many of you. If this gets even harder to understand and for me to express an opinion freely, then I'll probably find it hard to be fair-minded.

Most trans women will have female on their driving licence and passport. Female. Reality. Fact.

Although I didn't say that, I said I have no issue with trans people

So what was the point of your statement? Of course lesbians can be lesbians and have no problem with transpeople

I have no problem with transpeople. Given that I am a heterosexual female I would never be attracted to a trans man though.

Most trans women will have female on their driving licence and passport. Female. Reality. Fact

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_fiction

daimbars, are you a male lesbian or a female lesbian?

And can you say what the difference is between the two?

Ta.

NOBODY HAS THE RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED!

Individuals may not like the use of TRA, TIM, TIW, TERF, CIS etc but we all need to ignore the bits of language we don’t like & move on. None of them are intrinsically offensive, or actual hate speech. They're just labels.

(But before I go - transwomen are men )

*JuzzaL with respect pretty much all lesbians accept trans women as women. There's no breakout groups from the LGBT that I've come across.^

That made tea come out of my nose.

Step 1. Chase all lesbians out of public forums for daring to fancy a sex not a gender, and refusing to 'accept' transwoman as women.
Step 2. Validate people born male as lesbians
Step 3. Announce that every remaining lesbian agrees! Transwoman are women!

I've news, daimbars
You're wrong.

I do not think that MNHQ is likely to agree to redefine the word female to suit the transgender advocates.
That degree of submission to male dominance is the only thing the transgender advocates will accept.

It is a fact that their sex is listed as female on driving licence or passport. It is not a fact that they are female though. It's just a weird thing the passport office and driving licence authorities decided to do.

Been reading this thread on and off all day. Am sad, angry and confused now. This war on women is disgusting. I thank all you intelligent women who have patiently kept on with rational debate. I dont want to stop using mumsnet as I would miss you and your wonderful educational posts a lot. But I will not call men women. #Spartacus

I wonder if some clever woman can create a website where we can speak the truth without censorship.

if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women then we have made no real progress.

It is insulting, disturbing and uncivil for a poster to advocate coercing women to accept lies. It is gaslighting, domineering, authoritarian and causes distress.

It is disrespectful in the extreme @MNHQ ?

Biology is not an accusation.

J'accuse!

Sorry. It's all got too much and I am reduced to my biology irreverence.

if Mumsnet still allows people to refuse to accept trans women as women then we have made no real progress.

The fact that this obvious troll is still posting is an indictment of MN mod policy.

We could take our cue from the Green Party, and refer to "non-male identifying males" - NMIM, pronounced "Nimim".

The fact that this obvious troll is still posting is an indictment of MN mod policy.

The fact that they were the one Kate took seriously and clarified some points for speaks volumes....

Well, I guess it's nice that there was an immediate demonstration of what happens when you attempt to compromise on this particular issue. MNHQ specifically states that the science can be discussed, some people subsequently insist that discussing biology is a sweeping generalization (that they're presumably hoping posters will get banned for).

Coercive control, it really does make things clearer if you understand how it works and have seen it in action before.

"It is insulting, disturbing and uncivil for a poster to advocate coercing women to accept lies. It is gaslighting, domineering, authoritarian and causes distress."

Interesting. If someone insults a trans woman by saying she isn't a woman you claim that is free speech. If I object then you claim that is gaslighting, authoritarian and domineering. How does that work?

Justine Roberts....

In the Sunday Times earlier this year ... requoted in the Guardian:
“A significant minority of our users feel very strongly about women’s rights. This is an issue that needs to be discussed and that’s why we’re prepared to take any potential advertising hit.”

We are that significant minority ...and are oppressed, vulnerable and longing for freedom of speech..and we fall within Mumsnet descriptor in their new policy:
Mumsnet will always stand in solidarity with vulnerable or oppressed minorities,” said founder Justine Roberts. “Mumsnet is also committed to freedom of speech.

I have every confidence Justine will stand by her words.....

with respect pretty much all lesbians accept trans women as women. There's no breakout groups from the LGBT that I've come across.

Then you havent been paying attention. Many many lesbians have broken away and started their own groups. They DO NOT agree that trans women are women. They are disgusted at being told they HAVE to accept "ladydick".

BECAUSE LESBIANS DONT WANT DICK!

How does that work?

One is a biological, testable, verifiable, observable truth. The other is a denial of that truth to a person who will have suffered for their female biology.