Word of advice to MNHQ #2

[BackieJerkhart]

New thread

Like Gin, I can't quite put my finger on what it is..... but I too am too old/don't like change etc, for such nonsense.

I sincerely appreciate the support that I was given on the SN boards. All those years ago.

I think I just have to be content with that.

I think the majority of issues just come from how big MN has become. More people, less PARD, some really thick fuckers or goady fuckers posting, privacy concerns, more NCing, so much NCing that no one recognises anyone anymore and more troll hunting...

Obviously MNHQ can't restrict growth but I do think in the light of this they need to adjust their anti trolling policies. The reason so many people troll hunt on the thread is a direct result of soooo many trolls and how long their posts/threads are left up despite so many reports. I'm hoping the recent posts from Justine indicate they are taking steps to address this a bit more robustly.

One of the USPs of "original Mumsnet" if you like, was the self moderation and that you could basically say whatever the fuck you wanted, as long as you didn't make it a personal attack, so it was possible to disagree and say fuck a lot as long as you kept it reasonable. It seems now that isn't enough for people, and posters who they disagree with are just labelled a troll, which make a mockery of the damage genuine trolls do. Genuine posters really shouldn't need so much input and moderation from MNHQ, really we should be able to just get on with it but the style seems to have become so much more...vindictive.

The Reddit threads just exemplify this, for me. I genuinely couldn't give two shits if people call me a big fat dick or think I am secretly LaQueen, but asserting that I have been banned for disablism and implying that I don't really use a wheelchair and just say this to wriggle out of being called out, are a step too far. That kind of vindictive shit is not only surprisingly hurtful, but makes the people writing it look very unpleasant - no one comes out of it well and if people could say this sort of stuff on MN I challenged the site would be poorer. I am not going to either look at Reddit again or start defending myself any more from now but I feel I need to say that I have never put a photo up of someone's feet in a wheelchair to "prove" myself btw I can't believe I have to say that really. Whoever you're thinking of (and they sound like a dick tbf) it truly isn't me.

People acting like this also means MNHQ have to take time to respond to people dicking about unable to restrain themselves from making PAs/troll hunting, instead of allowing MNHQ up to concentrate on people actually trolling about bereavement and stuff. Yes you could argue they should employ more staff, but from their perspective why should they? I can see it would be easier just to ban people who take up a disproportionate amount of their time (I mean by being dicks not people genuinely reporting trolls).

Perhaps a (what's the opposite word to influx?) an exodus (?) of people who don't want any moderation at all will be a really good thing for those of us that feel nostalgic for ye olde days of yore and actually make MN a nicer place than it has been recently. I hope so anyway.

If you honestly think the problem is moderation as a practise then you haven't been paying attention.

I've lost count of the amount of times you've referred to being accused of being LaQueen but you sure do mention it a lot for someone who doesn't care!

It's being consistent in Modding that is the key for me. A party line, if you like. Then everyone would know exactly where they stand and could judge whether it is for them or not.

It's being consistent in Modding that is the key for me. A party line, if you like. Then everyone would know exactly where they stand and could judge whether it is for them or not

I feel like writing that is easier than implementation.
There is always going to be inconsistencies as staff members will read posts/situations differently.
Unless each thing is very specific and covers all the possible variances, I think there will be contentions, its like beyond the pail, very open and what is and isn't to each person will be different.

Oh, undoubtedly easier than implementation, BrainSaysNo!
I'm not saying there is an easy route that MNHQ are just choosing to ignore.
Some aspects of it could have the individual's interpretation removed though, such as the ludicrous situation where they aren't sure if someone is actually Banned or Suspended. They have promised to tighten this up, so that's helpful.
Or a report pathway for Troll reports that doesn't disappear into the ether when staff change shift.

JustineMumsnet, thanks for coming on and stating where you are coming from. I do think however that you are mistaken in some areas.

MN prides itself in its soft touch moderation policy and easy NC facility has given it a reputation as a supportive site, it also makes it a troll's paradise. It's growth and fame has meant that it attracts them from from everywhere.

Troll hunting is banned, so some posters set up the Reddit page. While you may be feeling hurt and annoyed by this, it provides a place for those MNETTERS who are concerned to talk about those concerns without breaking the guidelines here. As it is, MN is discussed elsewhere on the Web. Online media, Reddit, NMs and Mumsnet Madness regularly discuss posts and posters. By banning members who post on MN TROLLS, it seems that you are fine with anyone talking about us, except the users themselves.

You may be of the opinion that it's better for members to be discussed in PMs and private groups rather than openly, as a poster who is discussed in such a way, I disagree. I would much rather have the choice to see what people are saying about me and then I can chose to respond or ignore, rather than feel bewildered when posters have piled onto me or ignored me.

Some of the suggestions on this thread have been really good, especially those regarding focusing moderation on certain forums and leaving others to their own devices.

The final thing I want to say is that MN has done really well. Congratulations on building a successful business. I don't think anyone begrudges you that, but you can't have it all ways and this place is no longer the wee supportive site it once was for parents. It is successful and with that success comes criticism. Banning well known posters who criticise you on other parts of the net is bad craic. Please reinstate them, don't look at their Reddit posts if they upset you, channel your inner Taylor Swift and Shake it Off while counting your money. This is not Mouldies so don't make it that.

All the best,
Dione*

*not a supportive, popular or prolific poster and not a Reddit poster, but loyal to Mumsnet and pissed off at what has happened here.

Mumsnet moderation has always been inconsistent and, dare I say it, capricious. The place is effectively an absolute monarchy, hence why Justine can banish Stratters basically on the basis of "I don't like the cut of you jib" and that's that.

Every so often one of these threads pops up when they make a decision that particular annoys people and there's a bit of a hoo ha for a while, but everything always go back to the way it was before. There's no point getting het up about it as that's the way it is and probably will always be. You either come to accept it or you flounce.

I really don't know what I'm going to do from here - I'd like to stay with MN because it's safe and I can fester BUT there have been issues that don't seem to have been handled well: Honeydragon, Stratters and the person from Sussex as a small example. Obviously I'm just one person who was never a prolific poster, but I was never unkind, always supportive, reported the more outrageous posts - one of the silent majority, if you like. I miss having people I know. Perhaps we should set up a Quiche -

"I value MN - it has meant a lot to me over the years - I have made friends here, learned things, given and received a lot of support, and had many, many laughs, but it feels as if that's finished now."

For Jilly fans - in Rivals, the wheels start coming off for one phase of Declan's career when he knew that people were only turning on to see if the show was any better that week.

Anyone feel that way about MN when they are scrolling through Active?

The place is effectively an absolute monarchy

I don't disagree with that. It is what it is.
So, we either stay or go.

Fwiw, I'm staying.
And I am so not setting up a quiche, joining a quiche or boycotting a quiche or anything.
I do like Quiche Lorraine though...

Stella, yes.
Sometimes.
Ever more frequently.

I think the rot set in when we started getting all these user1234567 posters

Stella

Yes and I do hope Rupert comes striding through the door to take me away from it all, the handsomest man in England

oi specificdogwood you don't fancy my quiche?

absolutely ibblebobble

The thing is, there isn't really anywhere else to go.

Reddit has some subReddits that are close in tone and content to some of the boards on here, but are far far bigger than any of the MN board readership other than perhaps AIBU and so very very impersonal. The new TwasAllFields subReddit is a useful outlet for MN refugees for now, but I predict it will fizzle away in due course (or simply be the place where people post pictures of their dogs) because it isn't and can't be structured to replicate the various bits of MN, so if you want to get stuck into a good parking wars thread, you have to scroll past seventy billion "here is my dog" / recipe request / TV show discussion threads. Anyone looking for help on, say, a secondary school appeal or weaning would find it nigh impossible unless the thread happened to take off and get lots of upvotes.

I am still technically a NM member, and get emails from them every so often, but haven't been on there for literally years and cannot remember my log in details to de-reg. I have no interest in posting on that site, for various reasons.

I use some other online sites for niche things, but the great thing about MN is that I can do all my chatting about feminism, property porn, dress hunting, schools and Game of Thrones all in one place.

Ginslinger, I luffs you, but not yer quiche

the great thing about MN is that I can do all my chatting about feminism, property porn, dress hunting, schools and Game of Thrones all in one place.

I agree - that is MN's USP and that is why it will survive*. I think.

*although my interests are different from yours and I bow to your superior knowledge of GoT - I only lurk on those threads.

I think the rot set in when their was NO explanation concerning Dodgy D and poster's moved to Reddit to discuss it.

Justine confirmed upthread (or possibly on the first thread?) that the user123456 nonsense has been ended - there are some legacy users, but new sign ups are apparently required to come up with a proper username before posting

I agree with what Ginslinger says.

I do get in the occasional bunfight, don't really care who likes me or not so I have been had the occasional deleted post or five.

I will stay, because if the bigger turnover in threads, and because it feels more familiar, but I'm fully aware things are far from rosy.

I'm not sure that it's reasonable to tell people if they don't like it here, to piss off somewhere else (fair enough) - but then get agitated when they do just that. If they should just piss off if they don't like MN anymore, perhaps others should just not read Reddit? As for appearing to ban someone on here because of something they posted on there...wtf