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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

MNHQ - please can you clarify your policy on fraud?

275 replies

justanothernameagain · 07/08/2017 15:01

THREAD ON GENERAL FRAUD - please do not delete.

If someone is accused of committing fraud via MN, by several MNers.
If said MNers have a load of evidence they would like to share with you.

Do you see it as your role to investigate and forward to the police?

Or do you just want to get the site "back to normal" and take a hands off approach?

@katemumsnet please can you clarify?

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 06:37

If the rule is not to give to other posters because no one is sure who anyone says there is blah blah - how does that sir with having an official board that was set up for people to raise funds for others? And why wasn't it called fundraising not charities ?

There is a weight to used if the word charity and um sure that must at some point have occurred to you.

I suggested on Wednesday of last week that you should change the name of the board. I have yet to receive a reply.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 06:48

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Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 06:56

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ConstanceCraving · 08/08/2017 07:00

HQ are not going to change their stance. For whatever reasons they have. I would like to think they've read the deleted messages and looked at all the evidence that posters have emailed into them but even with that they're sticking to their mantra of " it stacks up at their end". So that's that.

It is frustrating and does leave a bitter taste.
I just hope moving forward that if nothing else this whole debacle teaches those who are at best gullible and think they're right about a poster in a dire situation and at worst absolutely bloody minded that they keep what's happened in the forefront of their minds, so this never happens again.

WellErrr · 08/08/2017 07:15

I was typing qyivkly on my phone and that sounds aggressive and I don't mean it to.

Don't mean it to? Bullshit.

You should be banned for your posts the last few days. HQ have been far more communicative than normal about this, answering individual posters in detail all over the weekend and at stupid o clock at night, and they've had nothing but nasty comments and thinly veiled threats of police and legal action in return.

Mumsnet isn't a government run public service that you're forced to use. Read Justine's comment. If you don't like how they do things, you're quite free to fuck off.
I thought you were all moving to Reddit anyway because of how shit this place is?

I've seen some pretty unsavoury things on Mumsnet over the years, but this is up there with them. The constant picking over and speculating over a mother's last days, on various public forums where her family almost probably WILL see - it's disgusting. Absolutely disgusting behaviour.

But your need to pick over the 'scandal' seems to trump a bereaved family's need for respect and privacy.
You really should be banned. I hope you are.

ConstanceCraving · 08/08/2017 07:23

Did you read any of the threads WellErr?

Or are you just being your normal self and making out you know best?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 07:24

I'm trying as much as is possible to refer to hq response. That's where the lessons are to be learned. And is fair to do I think.

WellErrr · 08/08/2017 07:25

Yes I did read some of the threads. What's your point?

I understand what's gone on. I just don't understand why you think what you're doing is ok? It's nasty and actually bordering on pretty weird and obsessive behaviour.

And I'm not sure what you mean by 'normal self' as I wasn't aware you knew me?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 07:29

I have a thread I wanted to focus on lessons to learn.

I was specifically told to post here not there by hq

NellieBuff · 08/08/2017 07:38

WellErrr no-one and I mean no-one has the right to tell someone to f* off.

Feelings are running high at the moment and in my opinion MNHQ have handled the whole situation very badly indeed. That said hopefully much needed lessons will learned by all.

WellErrr · 08/08/2017 07:44

WellErrr no-one and I mean no-one has the right to tell someone to f off.*

This is what I actually said -

Mumsnet isn't a government run public service that you're forced to use. Read Justine's comment. If you don't like how they do things, you're quite free to fuck off.

And it's absolutely true. Anyone that doesn't like Mumsnet IS quite free to fuck off.

AgathaRaisonDetra · 08/08/2017 07:44
ChampagneTastes · 08/08/2017 07:46

I don't think that was entirely called for WellErr. This is the climax of month of suspicions being dismissed and/or compassion being played upon. People are understandably upset and confused. The response has not been adequate and has in some ways seemed downright contradictory.

ArgyMargy · 08/08/2017 07:49

I'm surprised that HQ is still claiming that the originator of the offending threads appears genuine. Or have I read that wrong? Sometimes it's quite hard to tell...

Saucery · 08/08/2017 07:49

I spy an attempt to start a bunfight leading to thread deletion. Best not to rise to it Smile

CastIronCookware · 08/08/2017 07:49

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WellErrr · 08/08/2017 07:51

I don't think that was entirely called for WellErr

I do.

Imagine if it was your daughter, or sister, or mother who'd died and a load of strangers were picking over her last days obsessively?
Some posters have even suggested contacting the bereaved family members for verification. I mean, how bloody crass and entitled can you get?

Longislandicetee · 08/08/2017 07:54

we hope that most of you can understand that we're just not set up to do forensic detective work

I totally agree with you MNHQ. However, from a business perspective, Mumsnet had income of £7m last year and made profit of over £2m. You're not exactly a kitchen table company anymore so you need to review how you operate and your risks and procedures as a large company.

I posted on one of the many deleted threads that Mumsnet really needs to look at it's internal risk policies as to how you handle these situations. You have clearly made a quick decision over the charity/crowdfunding thing but there are much larger issues. This kind of situation is going to crop up repeatedly and if there's a lesson to be learned it's how you handle a long running thread with repeated reporting by many many posters over a 4 month period. Do you think, hand on heart that you have treated those posters well, both at the time they reported and over the weekend? Imvho I would say not, and that's why you have posters who are emotional about it. In their anger, many posters have probably put themselves in danger of being sued and I totally get that this is one of the reasons why some threads might have been pulled, but you never said this. In fact the message by @katemumsnet only makes an oblique reference to that possibility.

(An aside to mumsnetters, I have said repeatedly over the last few days that I believe the poster in the thread concerned was exactly who they said they were. Mumsnet believe this too, as do other posters. Think for one moment before you post whether you can afford to be sued for defamation and slander before you throw accusations around, especially those posters who were naming the couple concerned or responding after they had been named).

Back to MNHQ: it didn't take me very long to conclude the story checked out using online resources (check the deleted threads as to how i got there) and quite frankly any one of your 84 employees could have done the same. Equally, if you didn't feel savvy enough to do this, you might want to use a v small portion of those £2m of profits to keep an investigative company on a retainer who can quickly get to the bottom of things for you).

However, just because someone is exactly who they say they are doesn't mean that the situation presented is exactly as they say it is on a thread or that all material facts have been disclosed on the thread. Think carefully about what message your deletion statements and official statements convey either directly or subliminally.

I would also add that for a company that makes £2m profit running a 24 hour website where things are likely to blow up on a weekend, is strictly keeping office hours or having a "weekend crew" the right thing to do? Because I know at my company, our head of PR would have been straight on to this, advising management on how to respond. Do you have the same set up?

This will absolutely blow over but where is @justinemumsnet. If she's on holiday then fair enough tell everyone that but her silence on this issue also conveys a message to mumsnetters.

Final point, mumsnetters aren't stupid people. That's why you make £7m of income from them because advertisers are keen to engage with them (and pay you £4.5m) and get insights from or about mumsnetters (and pay £1m for the privilege). I guess the question you need to ask yourselves is over the last few days, weeks and months have you treated mumsnetters as if they are smart people from whom you make millions? Also, our PMs aren't exactly private to you. If you're getting a lot of reports about a thread or a poster then perhaps checking their PMs on a regular basis ought to be part of your risk procedures?

At the end of the day you're a business, you don't owe a duty of care to anyone, whatever you say about being a supportive environment for parents. Might it have been better at some point when the link to the foundation was first posted, to freeze the thread and say "we have had a ton of posters reporting so we need to freeze the thread while we look into their reports?". Could you not have privately said to the poster, okay, we believe you are who you say you are because you can prove it but something isn't quite adding up for posters, including many medical professionals so in this case, given you say you're a wealthy businessman, I think getting support through counselling might be the best route for you. And sorry for your loss.

Just a few thoughts!

CastIronCookware · 08/08/2017 07:55

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WellErrr · 08/08/2017 08:03

Sadly, any family who chooses to publicise details in the way C&D have done take that risk. Identity theft is a thing

Takes the risk of weirdos from Mumsnet obsessing over the circumstances of her death? So you feel totally justified?

I hope this never happens to your family. Losing someone is hard enough without the added stress and upset that YOU and all the other ghouls have caused. Not David. YOU.

ChampagneTastes · 08/08/2017 08:04

WellErr as a PP said, that horse has pretty much bolted and not through Mumsnet. I would want to know if my loved one's death was being exploited - wouldn't you?

AppleBlossomTimeNow · 08/08/2017 08:06

Good post Blingy

JigglyTuff · 08/08/2017 08:08

Great post Blingy.

WellErr if anyone is exploiting a tragic situation, it's the person encouraging people to donate cash to a foundation. Perhaps you need to calm down a bit.

Weebo · 08/08/2017 08:08

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AgentProvocateur · 08/08/2017 08:15

Great post @blingygolightly. Agree 100%