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Original poster

MNHQ - please can you clarify your policy on fraud?

275 replies

justanothernameagain · 07/08/2017 15:01

THREAD ON GENERAL FRAUD - please do not delete.

If someone is accused of committing fraud via MN, by several MNers.
If said MNers have a load of evidence they would like to share with you.

Do you see it as your role to investigate and forward to the police?

Or do you just want to get the site "back to normal" and take a hands off approach?

@katemumsnet please can you clarify?

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:20

I agree never.

Proper legit charities only

Hq never say someone checks out abc is legit.

Report or take it to the thread

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:20

Also don't slay someone asking reasonable questions. It's fair and sensible to ask questions and isn't troll hunting.

Lynnm63 · 08/08/2017 00:24

I agree but HQ need to understand that banning and deleting does not make problems go away. Hopefully they are doing stuff behind the scenes but on the site today they were not dealing with this in a professional manner. Have they learnt valuable lessons from this debacle, god knows.

Original poster
justanothernameagain · 08/08/2017 00:26

The answer is, of course, yes - if we had evidence that a fraud had taken place, we would certainly pass that on to the police. Unless and until we had that information we simply couldn't act; so we'd always ask people to get in touch if they had it.

@katemumsnet That's not good enough when a massive attack on our community has taken place.

You shouldn't be waiting for us to come to you with evidence.

If you took it seriously, you would be inviting people to come forward.

I know you can't do that every time but this is pretty goddam serious.

OP posts:
Original poster
justanothernameagain · 08/08/2017 00:28

It's not good enough also to say you're not a frosensics team.

The internet is changing. Fraud is a massive industry on the web.

You need to do more to protect our members.

If you stick your head in the sand, this site will get eaten by the troll fuckers.

OP posts:
Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:30

The info is all in the deleted threads and I am shocked that hq didn't read those threads today and email some posters even if just to offer support. And say. We. Believe. You.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:31

People told you hq. In the threads. And in the reports.

To say we couldn't act we didn't have the information isn't really fair - your members gave it to you

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:34

In the last What 3/4 days alone you had all the info in the deleted threads.

People did tell you.

You should be going to the police. The info is all there.

OutToGetYou · 08/08/2017 00:37

If posters think a fraud has been committed they can report it to the police themselves, in fact, they probably have a duty to. No need to wait for MNHQ to hold your hand.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:38

You can't unless you have skin in the game. Unless you have donated or been personally affected in some other way.

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:38

I have reported to just giving and received a generic reply. I responded to that generic reply and have not yet had a response

noblegiraffe · 08/08/2017 00:45

If he is who he says he is, and MNHQ still seem to think that's the case, then what's the fraud? Until any money is spent on something other than for the stated purpose, what is there to be done?

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 00:49

Obtaining money by deception is an offence.

And what's to be done is perhaps hq to change procedures (which they have started to do) so that it is harder for someone to do similar as to what has happened this last long months in future.

TabletIsSugar · 08/08/2017 00:55

Yes, from April to August is a long season.

noblegiraffe · 08/08/2017 00:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

PeachPearPotato · 08/08/2017 00:56

So MNHQ called D again and he once again confirmed he's genuine? You're right when you say you're not investigators 😂

There was a lot of potential evidence on the deleted threads.

noblegiraffe · 08/08/2017 00:56

Sorry, not that MNHQ confirm, but that MNHQ have said appear to be the case.

justanothernameagain · 08/08/2017 00:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

noblegiraffe · 08/08/2017 01:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Zoflorabore · 08/08/2017 01:13

Late to the thread. Nice to see one that isn't deleted!

The one thing that bothers me greatly is that there was zero mention of wife's family or friends, plus colleagues doing numerous charitable acts. Zero mention Confused

noblegiraffe · 08/08/2017 01:14

What I'm trying to say is that if the money isn't spent as advertised, that's fraud - just giving says that is potentially a criminal matter. But until then, I'm not sure what can be done.

Apologies for discussing specifics.

CastIronCookware · 08/08/2017 05:51

we hope that most of you can understand that we're just not set up to do forensic detective work

Fair enough. But, there are plenty of companies who are. Who provide services to large, profitable businesses like MN when there is the potential for criminal or civil liability. Such as when dozens of site members raise concerns about a particular poster, allege they have been subject to abusive messages and when many of them donate money to a cause promoted on your site that is considered suspect. You call them up. They come in and interrogate the systems. Analysis the findings. Write a report. And MNHQ act. It's business.

With regard to the "charities board" - I am frankly stunned that MN has managed to avoid scandal before now. To not apply basic due diligence, and provide a legitimised forum for anyone to ask for money, is naive, to say the least. Did no one consider the risks? Did it really not occur to anyone that it's not possible to tell the difference between a parent promoting their DCs fundraising for their school from a professional scammer? I know MNHQ aren't babes in the wood when it comes to business - so cynically, I've concluded that it was a conscious business decision - the risks were weighed up against the cost of providing more protection for their members, and profits won out.

NellieBuff · 08/08/2017 06:12

Just popped on to add my two pennies worth.

When a suspect thread is posted (in certain circumstances) and anyone thinks it involves fraud/troll etc then MNHQ should close the thread because
(a) it could be a troll OR
(b) if genuine the severely grief ridden poster should be saved from themselves (as stated grieving people do not act in a rational manner)

A telephone call to someone proves nothing whereas an affidavit signed by a solicitor would have more wait, and satisfy all concerned. By posting and asking for money on an open forum you are opening yourself up for all this scrutiny.

MNHQ by moving the thread to the Charities board actually endorsed that this was genuine (might not have been intentional but that is what happened).

Lessons have to be learned from this as MNHQ are showing this is not their finest hour. Perhaps allowing free and open discussion instead of just closing and deleting threads might be the way to go.

NellieBuff · 08/08/2017 06:18

*weight not wait

Mychildcouldnotbreaatfeed · 08/08/2017 06:27

Should it have really taken since April for hq to pull the threads? There were clearly issues raised from the get go.

Should it have taken all the eleventy billion threads since what? Friday? To get a decent response from mumsnet?

Lots of posters have had to bloody yell this at you all weekend and you have shut down and gaslit. Why?