MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

A broadsheet journalist is looking to write a piece exploring the pros and cons of partners staying overnight on postnatal wards, and we're trying to help her out with finding some case studies of women who have personal experiences and opinions one way or the other.

If this sounds like you, please email us on [email protected] to let us know:

a) what your opinion is about partners staying overnight on wards; and
b) what your personal experience is.

Ideally, anyone featured in the piece would be comfortable with divulging some identifying details, and possibly with being photographed.

It's for a good, reputable journalist working for a broadsheet newspaper - she's keen to explore all the angles.

(If you've already contacted us about this, thanks very much - we just need to find a few more candidates and then we'll let you know how the land lies!)

Thanks
MNHQ

Ok show me some statistics that show that men who don't spend the first two nights with their baby struggle to bond.
I don't believe it.

We all would like private rooms- in the absence of that- this is putting vulnerable new mothers in a more vulnerable position.

My wife was on a shared ward for a night and another woman's husband stayed overnight, fell asleep in the chair and kept everyone awake snoring! What a prick!

Beauty, through better facilities with an acceptable level of privacy, or separate wards for those who do/ do not want or need a partner present seem like the most sensible solutions.

On the other hand, I do agree that women who deliver in the middle of the night should be allowed to have their partner come to the ward with them for, say, half an hour to help them get settled. Then they should leave and go and get some sleep and come back when visiting time starts again

That still doesn't stop money being spent on non-patients and extra work being created for the midwives due to the presence of extra people. It also doesn't help those women who don't have a partner or who's partner can't stay. Plus, what do you do if a woman wants to be in the patient only room but it's full?

If we're assuming that being away from the baby affects bonding, does that mean all father of 2/3/4 dc are automatically less bonded with the others than dc1 as they would have needed to be Home with dc1 when dc2/3/4 were born?

I suspect one unanticipated side effect of all partners staying would be that inevitably children would start to stay too, and partners of less conscientious fathers will then end up trying to manage toddlers and kids as well as a baby. Women on these threads often talk about how difficult it can be at visiting times with children not being well supervised on the post natal ward; imagine that all night.

It would work beautifully if everyone could be trusted at all times to follow the jolly good chap principle, everyone was considerate of others and every man was a good partner and father. Unfortunately this won't be the case. It's already apparent on this thread that midwives are not easily able to eject family members not behaving appropriately, and they don't have the time to do their primary jobs never mind behave as bouncers. I'd also worry about women who give birth alone, as over time staff caring for post birth women will inevitably become used to relying on a partner normally doing aspects of the care.

That doesn't mean I'm not desperately sorry for a semi paralysed, bleeding, shocked and very unwell woman alone at 3 am with a totally dependent baby she isn't physically able to care for, when no one answers buzzers and she gets told off if she tries to gain help.

The answer has to start with properly manned, resourced and staffed post natal care.

I would have hated it to be honest. I stayed for 2 nights both times. In our case DH was better off getting rest at home and the second time caring for our older child. It is difficult enough to sleep without adding in extra bodies that don't need to be there. Understandably some feel they need their partners there and there needs to be some sensible flexibility. I think major over hall of postnatal wards would be required to make this practical.

The first night with both of my babies I was recovering from spinal anasetic and had a catheter in. The midwives and health care assistants weere beyond fantastic helping care for me and my new borns. What is vital in my oppinion is making sure postnatal wards have time and the correct number of staff to ensure all women can be adequately supported while their partners are not able to be there. I was helped with establishing breast feeding, I wasn't left alone with a unsetlable baby while exhausted or left waiting for pain medication.

I have spent far too many nights in the children's ward with ds and can't imagin how it would work. It is a juggling act to fit folding beds in there for a parent to stay postnatal wards have even less room.

I think it would be cruel not to allow partners to stay.

I was in a very bad way mentally and physically after the birth of my son, the worst time of my life and I'd not slept in days. To not have my partner with me that first vulnerable night at least would have made the whole experience twice as traumatic. Also, I was barely able to move and very weak, the staff were all rushed off their feet and I'd not have been able to care for my baby without my partners assistance.

Traumatic births aren't uncommon, I imagine many women have felt and will feel the need for emotional support from their partners after the experience, not to mention physical assistance which hospitals are not always able to provide. Sadly, the NHS is already pushed to its limits, it would be impossible for hospital staff to meet all these needs.

I was so glad to have my partner with me and I was glad other women were able to have theirs with them. Everyone was quiet and respectful, I didn't see anyone outside their curtains. If someone else's partner had seen me staggering to the toilet in bloodied pyjamas, there would have been no need to feel embarrassed as we were all there for the same reason.

I have heard stories of women not being able to sleep due to noisy patients and visitors/staying partners on postnatal wards which is terrible, but I think the way to tackle this is to make rules stricter regarding patient and visitor etiquette and for these rules to be explained clearly, perhaps with a member of staff doing a walk around the ward every so often to make sure nobody is playing loud music on phones or speaking loudly etc. I don't think the answer is banning partners in wards.

That's another point about space, actually.

My hospital, bays are four beds. All bays. Regular wards, children's wards (needing space for parent staying) and PN wards (needing space for fish tanks)

If four patients fit in a bay usually, how are we going to fit eight adults and a minimum of four babies in the same space?

"I suspect one unanticipated side effect of all partners staying would be that inevitably children would start to stay too"

I don't believe this is true at all. Many hospitals already let partners stay. I have never heard anybody suggest children stay too, let alone heard of it actually taking place.

beyondofbob they just had reclining chairs in my hospital. Didn't take up any more space.

What some other people have said - it should not be a question about fathers staying, but why are there wards in the first place. I have personally seen maternity hospitals in 3 other European countries, and the biggest rooms were doubles, otherwise there were either private rooms or special family rooms.

Clearly funding is the issue - and I don't think the best solution is not letting fathers stay so they can do the job of over-worked midwives.

The hospital where I gave birth was recently renovated in a massive way. Almost all wards, adult and paediatric, replaced with individual rooms. Great idea!

Not postnatal, though. Postnatal ward was still six to a bay. Sigh.

Partners should only be allowed to stay if they have a side room and not on a ward with other mothers.

I would have loved my DH to stop with me the first night after having DS1. A 32 hour labour followed by an EMSC, I was exhausted and needed him there with me. It certainly would have helped me in my recovery and can't help thinking my PND may not have been as bad if he'd been allowed to stay as was in 3 nights.

I think we have to rethink maternity care entirely. Mothers should have the choice of having their partners with them during childbirth and beyond for all of the reasons previous posters have cited, but our hospitals are just not geared up for that. Perhaps what we need is to un-medicalise childbirth and to encourage those with no complications or difficulties to give birth at home.

It is unthinkable to have men on wards with vulnerable, bleeding and exhausted women.

The thing is that being in hospital is just pretty shit. It's noisy, you get bothered every half hour for something or other, there are too many lights on, you may feel self conscious about your own medical stuff and grossed out by other people's, you can't sleep...the list goes on. And being around other people is, for some people, also shit. The women in my post-natal ward were chatters and loved other new mums being around. I couldn't bear it (I'm sure they're all lovely people, just not what I could personally deal with in that state at that time)

My hospital let partners stay. I had a really traumatic birth and a non-breathing baby who was whisked away to SCBU and stayed there for three nights. I would have had (even more) severe mental health problems had I not had my partner there. More midwives wouldn't have helped at all.

But, as this thread has shown, lot of women have strong and specific needs after birth. Doesn't that mean the solution has to be a mix of wards - some allowing men, some not. It's doable and doesn't cost loads more money - just allocate wards and tell men to use visitor facilities only. Of course there will be nights when a woman can't get her preference (just like now when not everyone can get a side room is they want/are willing to pay for one), but that's already managed in hospitals. You don't need extra space - our hospital had reclining chairs (which put partners off staying unless they really wanted to, in my experience). And you need rules about behaviour and a security team to enforce (and hospitals already have a lot of security - it's about management not cash).

And on a side note, personally I think it's a bit crap to charge people for private rooms if they're staying more than one night. A six night stay (which mine was) in our local hospital adds up to about 800 for a private room - it's not like you have much of a choice about whether to stay (I was ready to discharge myself and the baby if they'd tried to make us stay one more night, but that's a different story!)

I didn't have the best of luck with the birth of my DS I was in the hospital for almost a week as I had to be induced so 4 nights I was on my own the night before my waters were due to be broken my husband was allowed to stay with me as this was going to happen first thing as soon as labour ward had room for me luckily we were in a side room very long story too much to really go in to depth over all experience At said hospital was a nightmare anyhow I ended up having to go into theatre in end for a forceps delivery I lost a lot of blood my DS was born early hours so thankfully my husband was able to stay and it was a good job he did as I was in no fit state to take care of our DS I couldn't move so I think at times partners should be allowed to stay with their wives, Girlfriends etc

If your partner stays I think it should be a case of being in a private room.

The woman next to myself her partner not only stayed he opened my curtains took my visitors chair and walked off with it to put his feet up to have a sleep whilst I was breastfeeding

I thought I'd be saving the NHS a fortune by opting for a home birth. Sadly due to a 3rd degree tear needed surgery and wasn't allowed to escape for 2 days (almost 3). It was hell. I was lucky I had a private room but still did not know hospital protocol. Hence didn't leave room until dH arrived (so wet the bed as couldn't leave dd).
I think the whole birth/ward etc system needs a shake up. Yes, of course you can't have millions of rellies on wards etc but I'm guessing the NHS can't afford private rooms for all customers.

One note... People might be a little less keen to have their partner stay in if they didn't feel so trapped in hospital. Eg No complications following ds2s birth, but there was no one available to discharge us for an additional two days.

Traumatic induction. 40+12. Gave birth at 40+16. Was meant to be a homebirth.
I think I would have lost the plot if my (female) partner had not been allowed to stay. Baby born just before midnight. I was very 'not with it' and the care on the ward was woeful. General policy was that partners didn't stay though.
I think this was one of those rare times (aside from swimming pool changing rooms) where being in a same-sex relationship was advantageous.

No, not in a shared ward.

DH wasn't allowed to accompany me on to the post natal ward after DS1 was born in the middle of the night, after a long and difficult labour. He bonded absolutely fine.

When I had DS2 I was still unable to walk, at all, unaided due to very severe SPD. The midwives helped me look after him. I couldn't do anything for him other than breastfeed him. I needed help to wash and shower myself too.

If a woman was operated on in a gynaecology ward, or any other ward, where she felt in such a vulnerable position they would never be expected to sleep a curtain's width from a male who is not a patient and it shouldn't happen in an post natal ward either.

Having been traumatised by horrendous midwifery care I will never, ever accept any form of medical treatment/management without my partner present. I appreciate this is an extreme position to take, and I have no wish to distress other individuals. However it is a very definite line in the sand for me. I will not entertain him not being there. Funny how the local hospital jumped to attention and provided facilities without a whimper for child 2, (born within the window after dc1 where I could have sought compensation) but tried not to for dc3 born severally years later.

So all the people wanting partners to stay 24hrs on shared wards are pretty much saying it's to benefit themselves only. There's no benefit for all women to it, only drawbacks for everyone else. Also that there's no prospect at all of improving NHS post natal care, so this is the only option.

The NHS need to be upfront about it though, and make it clear to women that they can't expect basic care, and that to make that possible each woman must bring a competent adult to give basic care for the duration of their stay.

They need more nurses and carers to help women who need it. Not an extra six men on every ward!!!!!