MNHQ here: have you got strong feelings and personal experience about partners staying overnight on postnatal wards?

[RowanMumsnet]

Hello

A broadsheet journalist is looking to write a piece exploring the pros and cons of partners staying overnight on postnatal wards, and we're trying to help her out with finding some case studies of women who have personal experiences and opinions one way or the other.

If this sounds like you, please email us on [email protected] to let us know:

a) what your opinion is about partners staying overnight on wards; and
b) what your personal experience is.

Ideally, anyone featured in the piece would be comfortable with divulging some identifying details, and possibly with being photographed.

It's for a good, reputable journalist working for a broadsheet newspaper - she's keen to explore all the angles.

(If you've already contacted us about this, thanks very much - we just need to find a few more candidates and then we'll let you know how the land lies!)

Thanks
MNHQ

Beyond sorry to clarify, I am surprised and saddened for you that your partner wasn't able to support you.

In the hospital I'm at it is standard that partners can stay overnight and I actually thought this was NHS guidelines and available in most hospitals? I'm obviously wrong about that. I do think that more practical things can be done, other countries with a similar level of development can offer better physical facilities and infrastructure to better look after new mums. I have no idea what this would cost I'm the long run and no idea if many more staff, better training and better facilities on existing wards would cost a lost less. Honestly I have no idea.

Not on a shared ward.

I was on a shared ward and although partners were allowed, I took one look at the chair for him to sleep on and told him to go home. It seemed stupid for both of us to be exhausted. The noise and disruption all night from other women's partners was inconsiderate, unnecessary and infuriating. I wasn't too worried about privacy but I totally get that a lot of women don't want strange men wandering around when they are in pain, exhausted and vulnerable.

Those who do want partners on shared wards seem to want them because their experience of the healthcare system was so awful. Surely the answer is to improve the NHS rather than impose a load of random men on women at their most vulnerable??

Cherries, you would push for partners to stay in wards as they stand now, with no alterations, because you think that's better for women overall?

You're not worried about women who would discharge themselves early rather than have to be in that situation?

Another one to agree not on a shared ward.

My first night with my new baby was one of the loneliest nights of my life, I had a traumatic birth with emcs and just felt completely overwhelmed.

Would I have liked to be in a private room with my dh? Yes definitely and would have paid extra to do so, but there were no rooms available as they were only on offer to pay for it they weren't used for other cases.

But I was in a tiny cramped ward with 6 other people plus babies (my mum has spent a lot of time in hospital with cancer and commented on how much smaller the maternity ward was). I would have hated it more if there were 12 adult bodies in there, snoring, talking, making noise.

I'm pregnant again know and going to have an elective c section at a different hospital, a big reason for this is because I know I can book a private room in advance. Partners not allowed to stay over but no official visiting hours so can be there the whole day until about 10pm so alot less lonely.

Unfortunately too many people are loud, rude and inconsiderate to allow partners in wards as well, it's not exactly restful for women who are in a very vulnerable position.

Assassinated equally I would have discharged myself had I been in that situation all alone. If I had known it was possible I would have done so anyway!

As I said there is no either/or solution that will suit all women. It i's already the case that the NHS has changed its policy and that partners are allowed to stay on wards overnight, and I'm not aware of mass self discharges occurring since this decision was made.

Ah, so you think it's a non problem. It's not NHS policy, I don't think, as the hospital I was at had trialled it and then not implemented it due to overwhelmingly negative feedback from women.

And Assassinated the way you've worded your question is again very dismissive of women who have genuine valid needs to have their partners there. Of course I am "worried" for all women who have such bad experiences on PN wards that they would be willing to discharge themselves before was medically advisable to do so. But there are many, many reasons why women might and do feel that way, and everyone's perspectives are valid.

It is not as simple as drawing a line and saying right, no partners overnight, that's best for all women, so let's do it. There must have been genuine reason for them to change these policies relatively recently and I can see the logic behind it, even if it dosent suit every woman. That doesn't mean I think the system is ideal by any means.

Not sure where in any if my posts I have given the impression it's a non problem?

No, not in a shared ward.

1st birth no partners allowed to stay on ward, was ok noise etc

2nd different hospital partners allowed- was horrendous the noise, heat and lack of space on a 6 bed ward was too much.

3rd birth same hospital as 2nd I refused to go onto a ward. Just point blank refused.

Because you've said it isn't happening. You know that there hasn't been an increase in self discharging.

What I said was, in response to your assumption that I had no concern that women may discharge themselves if partners are permitted to stay overnight on ward's, is that there are equally women who feel the opposite and that experience can equally have them feeling the need to discharge early. You're not basing your counter argument on any evidence is what I'm trying to get it - you're basically taking a "your word against mine" approach and I'm simply saying there is no evidence that women across the country are largely sided against one option vs the other.

And if there has been a statistical increase in self discharge from post natal wards, how can you assume that it's solely down to men being allowed to stay with there partners, particularly if this is not practiced across the country?

How can you ascertain that any discharges made are not due to awful post natal care, lack of adequate food and water, lack of access to pain relief and basic hygiene practice? All of which are genuine issues with current NHS post natal care.

I hate to sound condescending but I reckon Poppet will change her tune once she's actually had a baby and experienced life on the ward .

I had a EMCS with DS 1. And r two nights I spent in hospital were some of the worst of my life. I would have loved my DH to stay. And he would have been no bother, as he is quiet and considerate. But he's also pretty tall, and snores when knackered. Two things that would not have endeared him to the woman lying 3 feet away from me. Also, she was probably feeling like crap as well and Di not want some random bloke beside her all night.

I also think that you cannot underestimate how vulnerable you feel. You are in pain, bleeding, possibly in shock. You are trapped in a bed with a catheter stuck inside you, your emotions are all over the shop, your temperature spikes so you want to fling off all your bedding, and you just want to be somewhere safe and lovely with your baby. There is something almost primeval about the feeling. You don't want random men around you and your tiny new baby. You just don't.

I had a bloke visit his wife stare at me. I mean really leer at me as I was trying to establish Bfeeding. I fucking hated him as he took that special moment with my new baby and made me feel scared. The fucker.

So no, Poppet. I do not want men on the ward. I don't care that your partner might not like it, or you might miss some
Bonding. Get over it. It's nonsense. I want to be able to feel that when I go to sleep that I don't have to worry about some wanker looking at my tits.

My husband would have slept on the floor if it meant he could stay and help his emotional, bleeding, exhausted, catheterised wife. So if the partner is respectful of the fact they are staying on a shared ward with women who are feeling vulnerable, exhausted, potentially scared and overwhelmed, who are bleeding heavily and trying to get the hang of breastfeeding then absolutely they should stay. If not, they should be shown the door. But how do the already overstretched NHS begin to police this let alone individual midwives and HCAs who are already under too much pressure?

In an ideal world we'd all have our babies in a birthing centre where partners can stay overnight; they have as much right to start bonding with their new baby as much as we do. But as this isn't an option for many women I'm not sure what the answer is.

So yes they should be allowed to stay, but it's not realistic in shared wards.

I should say though that the statistic aspect of this whole concept is "meh" to me when it comes down to the issue. If it turns out that statistically speaking 70% of women favour partner's staying overnight and only 30% against this idea, that's still 30% of women who are going to be unhappy with their post natal care already.

Which is why I feel that there should be lots of alternatives to just blanket banning partners staying overnight (I've already said a few times over a couple of thread's why an overnight ban is a silly idea for a PN ward anyway given that the patients are uniquely off schedule compared to pretty much all other hospital wards). So that all women in a modern country with a modern healthcare system can be supported equally.

Victoria who is Poppet, are you referring to me?

If it's me you are referring to, then I've already given birth thanks. I've had more than enough experience on a postnatal ward.

And if you are concerned about privacy why are you breastfeeding with your curtains open so "some wanker" can "stare at your tits"?

It's people like you who make these situations so difficult to deal with - people who have one narrow viewpoint based on their own singular experience and use it to justify their sweeping ideology without considering how it affects others.

My fiance is not "some wanker" who stares at other women, and I feel I can confidently say that most women's partners aren't, at least in that situation. And I'm not going to "get over it" just because you say it's the way it shold be.

I'm lucky that he was there to support me through my first labour and birth and was right there with me from the day she was born. And I'm lucky that he'll be there in November when our next one is due.

My experience on the PN ward was far from ideal too and I suck it up because that's what it's like being around other people in a situation where everyone should have genuine privacy with their family.

Which is why I advocate for better emotional support throughout antenatal care, more holistic approaches and encouragement of giving birth either at home or in home from home settings. Because we've accepted a pretty shirty situation as the norm. And we're told we are unrealistic of we think this could change.

And yes I do feel strongly that fathers should be able to be equally involved with the birth of their child. Do I feel the need to apologise for that belief? Nope.

fathers should be able to be equally involved with the birth of their child.

We're talking about the hours and days immediately post natal. How many fathers are losing plum-sized clots out of their vaginas? Even female co-parents aren't leaking from newly-functional breasts, nor are they systematically shrinking their uterus from watermelon size to apricot size. They aren't recovering from PPH.

This is one of the very few areas where parents are not equal.

There is a difference - I'm not saying (obviously) that they go through the same thing as a woman does to bear a child. I'm saying it's my personal opinion that the support they can offer the woman who has gone through that is invaluable and that they equally deserve to be around the baby at birth.

This is my personal opinion and it's not going to change. The part about them bonding doesn't have any bearing on my opinion of fathers on post natal wards. I can't see why people see it as such a ridiculous notion though, that a father should be equally able to be around his child when they are born... but again it's a separate issue to all the other reasons I feel its important to have partners there.

I felt invaded. Partners were not allowed to stay overnight, but for some reason the woman next to me had her partner stay and could just not stop talking ALL night, with all lights on - and at one point he moved himself to an empty bed opposite (!) to watch TV. (Another thing I think should be banned. TVs without headphones.)

Re: this comment by Cherries...

"And if you are concerned about privacy why are you breastfeeding with your curtains open so "some wanker" can "stare at your tits"?"

It is NEVER a woman's responsibility to prevent inappropriate male sexual behaviour.

Right okay.

So all logic goes out the window because she is female and he is male?

If you are in a public place, with multiple other people, are feeling vulnerable and feeling you are exposing yourself, you don't do the best you can to make yourself a private space? You expose your breasts in full view of a hospital ward and at the same time complain about someone seeing your breasts?

The fact that we are different genders does not mean you just get to do exactly as you please and assume the world should fall into place around you.

Or to put it in a less emotive way,

It is frustrating when people complain about lack of privacy, and use this as a reason to remove people from their partners shortly after going through childbirth, when at the same time even the most basic measures put in place to allow privacy of being ignored.

Cherries I was responding to your comment specifically but my point has nothing to do with gender - no person is responsible for another person's inappropriate sexual behaviour as directed at them.

All logic goes out the window? What next - women shouldn't wear short skirts because they'll attract the wrong sort of attention? A woman who is raped while drunk only had herself to blame? Who are you, Aunt Lydia?!

FYI while there is no set legal definition of a public place, it is normally understood to be a place to which the public has access. A hospital ward is therefore clearly not a public place and no one (other than you because it suits you) thinks it is. Likewise, as you've been told repeatedly by other posters on this thread and others, there is no NHS policy re:partners. Different hospitals take different approaches.

FHS - what's wrong with stating your opinion, giving your experience and accepting that not everyone agrees with you? I've read your comments on other threads on this subject and you seem a bit obsessed with the subject...

www.telegraph.co.uk/women/mother-tongue/11830210/New-dads-should-always-be-able-to-sleep-overnight-in-maternity-wards.html

This article says that it is a policy that was rolled out? Everything I've read in media refers to it as a policy. And so what - have I gone on repeatedly about it being a policy in the context of it being significant? I don't think so.

It's funny how feeling passionately about something that directly affects me must mean I'm obsessed. And I'm continuing to comment because people have directly asked or argued what I've said? Is that not allowed?

The problem I have is that's a very hypocritical thing to say given the general nature of theservice threads.

I have never on any post relating to this subject said that women who don't want partners on the ward shouldn't be accommodated for. Everyone else who comments saying they don't want partners on the wArd is fine and no one comments, but when I share my own views, which weren't directed at anyone and was simply expresting my opinion, mine is the one that gets challenged and ridiculed because I happen to disagree with the majority?