Disablism

[BishopBrennansArse]

Shiny new thread.

Hopefully won't get derailed.

Disability absolutely can be discussed by all - those whose lives are affected by it and those who aren't. All we ask is that acceptable parameters are supplied in the same way as with other isms.

So it's ok to say you believe that disability may be affecting someone in some way and ask for guidance or explanation, I never ever mind explaining to people if they are asking questions but it's not ok to say that someone is using disability as an excuse or you think they're not disabled but they're lazy... can you see the difference?

It's not ok to say disabled children are causing a nuisance and shouldn't go out. It's not ok to pour scorn on someone's diagnosis and call it an excuse for pre criminal tendencies or naughtiness.

The absolute biggest it's not ok in my view is for someone to point out that something is disablist, especially when at least two other posters agree then use that to chase them round the boards sniping at them and then jump on the bandwagon and shut down threads that a minority group have started to share their experiences of a distinct issue they are experiencing elsewhere by derailing it and getting it deleted.

What mrsdv said.

I was talking about a general attitude towards BBA and several people implying she was oversensitive.

And to be fair you did also ask if she was but worded it as being curious and exploring options.

Which could be seen as you exploring the issue. Or even trying to say she was oversensitive in a more snide way. Who knows.

Think part problem is that it's very much a new -ism so to speak in relative terms. Most people never heard of it because social attitudes are way they are. I have been disabled for 10years and although I of course experience hands on Disablism some of finer points I really have to think about.

It's only when you hear someone else explain it you really get it, it's because it's all social conditional or it's covered up as they don't know better, only being nice, lack of experience etc. This of course applies to everyone but feel if you try explain it to non disabled people or where disabled bubble never reaches then it's taken as personal insult and they will not budge or think mmmm well yes could see maybe why you might feel that.

Guess we all know we in for long haul you can only change few things very slowly. think last few years there is more general expectation from Disabled people to hurry things up and frustration at why things are not better.

You see channel 4 do yet another special report on jobs for disabled people or lack transport or lack shop or leisure access and some MP will come on and tell us yes we waiting for this report or that. And oh how awful but we can't expect trains/shops/restaurants/taxi/toilets to be sorted over night. Yet audience are just seeing nothing major has happened in last 10years really to improve things. We are just told to be patient and society will catch up.

But it's not! Waiting for society to make "reasonable adjustments" 21 years after law has passed has done diddle squat for large amount of places. Can't see anything happen in next 10 either! So can see why it's "little" comments and hurtful things that we all try really hard to battle against because in part they are only battles where we can possible make differences. Then it's not heard, we feel hurt and end up on these threads!

Sorry for essay!

fanjo
in a more snide way. Who knows.

Wow, the irony.

Not being ironic.or snide. FWIW.

Same shit different day.

I'm going now as DD is due in any minute and I don't want this thread deleted for bunfighting because people decide to come and argue on it.

Good luck peoples.

Akire, I think for some people they find it difficult to understand because their experience of disability or illness is temporary and a temporary situation tends to be dealt with as best as it can be at the time but a life long condition the best outcomes require change, practical, physical, emotional.

'That' thread is going. Due to the OP's request.

Says a lot, doesn't it?

There has been a series of informative posts. No smarminess. If you want to get ordinal please by all means start your own thread.
Let's keep the informative and solutions based ideas going.

It not about pisters defending themselves. No one is unde attack.
We are addressing disablism.

If a pat is racist or sexist or any other ism, and it was discussed, why would this be defended?

What has occurred is that when posters defend themselves, they have made further disablist remarks. They haven't realised they've done that because try aren't coming firm a disability based perspective.

When that has been pointed out, it descends into personal attack and bun fights.

This is an opportunity to learn.

Ask:
why do people with disabilities/people impacted by disability think what I have said is disablist?

Could I have phrased it differently or explained it differently?

Did I make assumptions that I do t actually know to be true?

Is what I said actually what the law says?

Could what I said be perceived as hurtful or offensive?

Please rest assured we are a hardy, resilient lot (through necessity) and not over sensitive delicate little flowers choosing to take offence.

What we are, are people who face disadvantage in every single aspect of life, day in, day out, and it's exhausting. And we are trying to make things better.

Thank you for this thread bishop. I tried to follow the old thread after the SP documentary threads. Just quietly lurking.

Gruffalo, if i use the latest thread, the co-worker one.

It was disablist because she was intimating the issue was the co-worker, and that he was using his disabled child to 'take the piss'. Citing not signing in from home, being late, extended breaks...etc as 'evidence' for his piss-taking

In that instance, i made a couple of posts about some of the realities of being a parent/carer and how not only will his home/work balance be difficult with adjustments, but that being a parent/carer also impacts on mental health and his behaviour could also be symptomatic of that.

If she'd asked how to tackle managements handling, which as we pointed out, was the real problem, it wouldn't have been disablist. By making a legally defended characteristic (his parent/carer status and his dd's disability) the focus of her post, she was being disablist.

Its why the idea of replacing disablism with racism works, because its about using that protected characteristic to vilify someone.

So on the last thread, we discussed What is disablism?

Disablism is treating a person as less equal because of their disability.

Disablism affects everything and comes in the guises of:

• discrimination

• ignorance
• inaccuracy
• diminishment
• exclusion

To name just a few.

Disablism affects all areas of life

• disability rights
• communication
• information
• mobility
• health
• education
• social inclusion
• housing access
• equal opportunities
• financial
• benefits
• personal care
• diet

Disablism is found everywhere. It is deep rooted entrenched views that people may not even realise they are holding.

Disablism blames the individual with a disability(or those impacted by disability.

If you are a visitor to this thread - what you do think disablism is? I'd be interested in a wider view.

Can't think fancy name but when able bodied think always know best. So even if they ask you would you like a bag/hand/sugar with that say and you clearly say no thank you I manage or don't want. Able bodied person will say no have it, or carry on helping. I get it all time gives me rage! Their descions carry more weight even if it's just shop assistant deciding my way of carrying my shopping is wrong and they think have tell me better way. When I know what I can carry on my lap or chair. If I can reach it once I'm home etc. Able bodied 40y woman isn't normally given packing advice over tiny bit of shopping but person in wheelchair then they know better!

Privilege?

I always thank people who offer assistance, sometimes I take them up on it, other times a polite decline. Today I was in the pharmacy, the lady behind the counter opened the heavy glazed door for me but I couldn't get out because there was a taxi blocking the ramp. An elderly gentleman offered to go and tell him to move but the taxi had already seen me and was moving. I thanked him for thinking about me.

It's nice that people offer. What is not nice is when they patronise or think they know best.

Maybe infantisation? So feel same way as if saw a 7ywar old trying do shopping are unsure you want it this way no let me pack, make sure you put your money away safe etc.

Have been known to put things in my basket when someone's been very helpful when I've just been looking at the top shelf then dump it few aisles later!

It is annoying when people can only see the disability.

Another aspect of this is that people can think disability is our only problem and they also have their own problems in life too.

I also have the same problems they might have AND a disability.
I worked for 25yrs and has employment issues
I'm a woman and have all the gynae issues including a faulty brca2 gene
I'm a wife and have had relationship
Issues in the past
I'm a daughter and my dad died two years ago
I'm a mother of a 3yr DD and it's hard work.

None of those give me an exemption from being a law abiding citizen and not discriminating against a vulnerable group.

I have all the challenges anybody else has AND I am deafblind.

Disablism isn't the only issue I care about.

But it is simwthing I understand well and I won't leave it unaddressed.

My first hand experience of disability is somewhat limited, I am not disabled myself nor do I have any close family or friends that have a disability. But disabilism to me, well a few things stand out to me that happen a lot and they're often things that are 'brushed under the carpet'. Things such as

Buildings that don't have adequate access for people with varying disabilities

People failing to recognise 'invisible' disabilities

People saying things like 'that's not a disability'

Patronising disabled people - not seeing past their disability. It's like people forget someone's disability is just a small part of their entire being

Ignoring disabled people because it's easier to- eg priority seats

The brutal way people talk about disability- this has been covered in here with regards to the thread about the co worker carer. Blaming and shaming rather than trying to assist and accommodate

Oh and I think sometimes dignity of disabled people is overtaken by patronising behaviour

Well said candy

I think when the negative focus is on the disability, that's when it's disablist.

Somebody on here felt a colleague wasn't working well because of personal issues at home, and that management hadn't handled it well. Fine. But it instead became a diatribe about all the things he apparently needs due to DD's disability, when really that part was not relevant, and not any of the OP's business.

Similarly on another thread a while back someone felt they had the right to march into a headteachers office and ask what was being "done" about an SN child. Literally none of their business. When the real question was "AIBU unreasonable to think the balance of SN provision in mainstream is poor?"
YANVU says THE ENTIRE WORLD but YABU to fixate on an individual child and believe you have ANY entitlement whatsoever to know their tatement/EHCP just because your child is in the same class. Disablist.

From a personal stand point:

Hi I'm Song, I like books and jigsaws and Game Of Thrones, I've got friends, I've got loved ones and experience the same relationship issues as all women. I work. I have hobbies. I am not internally different from the next woman. I use a wheelchair. I am repeatedly penalised for that for no reason, like struggling to get into the bar my book club is in, or people looking at or addressing another person when talking about or to me, before actually seeing if I am able to communicate. My disability is secondary and being treated as if it's all I am gets right on my tits.

In adulthood my biggest problem has been employment. Employers are very, very reluctant to employ disabled people and almost every disabled person I know with a job inc. me work in some kind of disability/health related position - it's what I have but it is not who I am and I don't really want to spend my life educating people about courtesy over things that should be blindingly obvious ie you wouldn't speak to someone with a baby voice because they had the flu so why would you talk like that to an adult with Downs?

Oh and by "internally" I don't mean literally/medically I mean it in terms of the soul and personhood as cringy as that might sound.

I sometimes feel a bit of a fraud. My disability is temporary. (So they tell me) I had SPD during my pregnancy with DD and worse with DS2. It hasn't gone away. It's 3 years since I was first diagnosed. I've lived my life in pain every day since. I don't even want to be cured anymore, I just want the pain to be bearable. I want to be able to get into my bath alone. I want to be able to put my own socks on and not cry if I do manage it, or have my DS1 do it for me. I have crutches. I hate using them, because when I do I have people think they can complain about the fat woman sitting in priority seats on buses, how if I wasn't so fat I wouldn't need the crutches. I'm fat because of the SPD. I couldn't move at all last year. I had to be carried to my downstairs toilet. I couldn't burn off the calories I was consuming.
People treat me as if I'm a child when shopping. I don't mind genuine concern, but for crying out loud I'm a 25 year old mother of 3, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm shopping for. No I don't want to buy knee supports. My knees are not the problem. "Oh, really, oh. It's just usually people like you want knee supports" wtf? People like me? What's that meant to mean? A woman? A mother? Fat? On crutches?
I've been asked to move on buses, despite being heavily pregnant and having crutches

I've had a woman refuse to move her bag from the priority seat because she didn't want me to sit next to her.
I've had people refuse to move when I've asked if it's possible for me to sit down because "it's your own fault you're so fucking fat you lazy bitch"

Disablist shit on here makes me so angry. It should not be left to stand. It needs to be addressed so that the shit that has happened to me may slowly change, people might see that the way they've treated me is wrong and it could improve someone's life. I can't imagine having to put up.with that crap forever.
for all of you that do. I respect you for not hitting someone yet. I know I've been tempted.

(Sorry if that's a bit of a ramble)

Thank you moz

Songbird, while its shit you had access issues with getting into the bar, what stood out for me is... Your book club is in a bar??? Cool book club! The one I went to was in a freezing church hall.

Yep emolument. I graduated from uni with same qualifications as my friends. Some of us went to work for the ssme company. Fast forward 5yrs, all promoted except me.
Access to Work, the DWP scheme which was meant to smooth out issues relation to employing a person with a disability (for example, paying for specialist software on a computer) has been drastically cut and is difficult to get. So it means it is more expensive for an employer to employ a disabled person - the cost of adaptations fall in them. In a time of budget cuts this is not always easy.
So not only does a person with a disability have all the usual worries and neves about applying for a job - they also know they are not as desirable as a non disabled person. It's just how it is. Shit though.

Great to hear people's stories maybe we could have general work or not work or chat thread too? Was on on SN boards?

Fatty I've got a sock gadget that could help you - I'll see if I can find it online. You aren't a fraud.

Yes, the they/them othering gets right up my nose - WHAT do you mean by "people like me" I'm nothing like the next person who happens to be a wheelchair user but is a massive fan of say, Michael Buble and knitting!

As does I've worked with lots of disabled people therefore I know who you are brigade. Or as I was once told "know more than you" Yeahalright love.

I have a hilarious "Book Club Drunk" story Candy but it's very IDing.