I am still Spartacus

[OscarDeLaYenta]

Seems timely. Sadly still required.

I am Oscar, and I remain Spartacus. Really cannot be arsed to C&P or restate my position.... I shouldn't need to have to state the need for language to reflect reality in the first place.....

(Belated shout-out to seek for brilliantly using the Spartacus analogy in the first place!)

Still Spartacus here too for all the eloquently put reasoning above...well except for the bible one. I am not prepared to be 'othered' and for women's rights, spaces and voices to be taken away.

Not cis, not silent. Ever.

Just want to make clear that although my name is notspartacus (and has been for ages) I agree with much of what has been said on this thread. So maybe I am Spartacusnotspartacus.

Still Spartacus

I have read the original thread, the follow up and the rebuttal.

I am not gendered, I am female. I reject cis and I am Spartacus.

I absolutely agree with this posted by Justletmeweeinpeace upthread:

"'Widen the boundaries of your sex. Do not dictate the norms of mine.

If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space.

Teaching children that there is right and a wrong way to be for their biological sex and that they can "change sex" by taking puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones is wrong. This is the crux for me. We must not encourage children to hate or mutilate their bodies.

Men make the moral code and they expect women to accept it. They have decided that it is entirely right and proper for men to fight for their liberties and their rights, but that it is not right and proper for women to fight for theirs. Emmeline Pankhurst

I am not 'cis'. I will not participate in this newspeak double talk which aims to turf women out of existence. If that makes me a terf, I will accept that label and be proud of it.

I find it despairing how much trans activists could have done for men. Instead of redefining women they could have worked for acceptance of men who are more ' feminine ' and challenged traditionally male behaviours
They could have done so much good.' "

Widen the boundaries of your sex. Do not dictate the norms of mine. If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space.

Spartacus Hathaway and this is my opinion too.

I have found a lot of the Spartacus declarations unpalatable or even actually bigoted, but the central gender critical point of "hang on, what's going on? Let's not trample one oppressed group for the sake of another without carefully assessing all sides" is surely something we must all agree with.

I am very late to this.

But I am sparticus.

My Dd is sparticus.

My Dd has been active in a sport that girls have struggled to compete in, because of the lack of girls. Until the last five years where uptake amongst girls has risen. Her club is very concerned about the prospect of its female members being forced to compete against people born as male.

They know it will end with us being back 10 years ago. With very few people who were born female competing. They will not encourage female members to compete against people born as male. Which possibly puts the club at risk of being closed and not allowed to compete at all.

Widen the boundaries of your sex. Do not dictate the norms of mine. If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space.

Fantastic post.

I am Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

"Do I even need to say it?" - BeyondSpartacus

Sparty McSpartyface, me.

I listened to R4, an interview with a perfectly sensible sounding 10 year old boy, Leo, excitedly awaiting puberty blocking drugs so that he could stop his ovaries from turning him into a woman.

His mother had spotted that he was trans at nursery. She has worked hard to support him in his and, not her own, somewhat attention seeking and fashionable choices.

I mentioned on the other thread that my daughter was sure that she was a rabbit at nursery. The child was mute for a solid six months (would only communicate if called "Blossom" and then only by wriggling her nose) and refused to walk on her first day of school - she hopped into class. As a protest of not being allowed to go to Watership Down for an education.

At no point did I think our daughter was trans-species. I thought she was a normal, if annoying, 4 year old kid with a healthy, obsessive imagination.

Children are not to be taken literally.

Still Spartacus

Still Spartacus

I am a woman.
I am not cis.

I am still Spartacus.

I am Spartacus.

I don't use MN very often but have been lured back by the Spartacus threads and wish to express my admiration for all those who have written so eloquently.

My concern at present is for the kids growing up in a society that feels so very regressive in so many ways. How did we go from 'pink stinks' and empowering girls to wear what they want, study what they want and be what they want - to this. Where girls who don't like pink or playing with Barbies are told they are really boys, and where boys who do like pink and sparkles are taken to a doctor and told they are 'gender-fluid'.

I can think of no earthly reason that a 6 year old should know what the term 'gender-fluid' means, let alone describe themselves that way.

Well-meaning parents who buy into this are then convinced that the right way to deal with it, is to encourage their child to switch gender. How does a child walk that back, if they realise later that they were wrong. They do actually feel 'like a girl', however that feels?

I'm not transphobic. I don't hate transwomen. I don't wish them harm. I don't think transwomen are women. They are transwomen.

Widen the boundaries of your sex. Do not dictate the norms of mine. If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space.

YY and Y.

I am Spartacus.

Still Spartacus.

I am still Spartacus and this whole mess is ludicrous. It's a nasty sneaky way of trying to claw back the little women have won for themselves over the last three or four decades.

I will not be silenced, I will not allow anyone to tell my two year old little boy that wanting to play with his teddy bears and my sparkly handbags means he's actually a girl in the wrong body.

How have we gotten to a place where gender is so tightly defined again? It's so very damaging and I fear a whole generation of special snowflakes with aggressively right on parents will suffer because of this. In the words of a pp;

Widen the boundaries of your sex. Do not dictate the norms of mine. If you feel unsafe in male spaces because you have chosen to have a feminised appearance then that is awful, and wrong, but you need to tackle this by tackling male violence and entitlement, not by displaying that same male violence and entitlement by imposing your male body on my safe space

Shame on you MN for not engaging with the issue at stake - there's an important debate that's not being had and you could so easily facilitate it...

Delurking to say I am Spartacus too. And thank you fellow women for articulating so eloquently what I believe. I've rarely seen such wonderful and intelligent discussion on Mumsnet

I am a woman.

I am not cis.

I am Spartacus

I am Spartacus too. De lurking in solidarity.

Has everyone on this thread seen and signed the relevant petition in the 'petitions' section?