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A different view to "I am Spartacus"

281 replies

aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 02:01

Hello everyone,

I have had the time to read a lot of your comments about Transgender people not being biologically the gender they wish to be. It is a very sad day when parents are not able to share the hopes and dreams of other parents. It is a sad day when other parents cannot understand the pain and anguish of other parents when their child is in so much pain that they want to die.
Now I know what you are about to say, if they get help then they would not have a problem and they would be fixed. In the DSM 3,4, and 5 Gender Dysphoria is a real problem. It is not something made up to lead people to the Devil or anything else that crazy. By the way if you go to a Physiologist or a social worker they use the DSM as a guide book for issues of the mind. Though this year it is being discussed to remove the issues of Gender Dysphoria. Now if you try to discount the issues of Gender Dysphoria then the little happy pills some of you are taking must stop as well.
Let me try to give you a little light... I respect your views as it is your right to have them. But giving you the right to have your views then you must accept the right given to others to have the view that they are not what their body says they are.
When it comes to children who are feeling the way that they are, would you not do ANYTHING to keep your child alive? Hormone blockers do not cause boobs to grow. They do exactly what they say they are going to do. It puts off Puberty, it does not stop it. They are used to see if the child is going through a phase. Now to the issues of physical sex (penis and vagina) those of you saying that they are the only two genders need to understand that you have been proven incorrect by 99% of the medical community. There is a physical sex called Intersexed for those of you who don't know that is what used to be called a Hermaphrodite. Now this does not mean that they were born with born sets of equipment. What it means is simply that some of the traits of both sexes are included. Meaning that you could have a child born with a penis and a set of ovaries. Now saying it is a "normal" condition, in the past surgery was chosen for children born with this condition. The suicide rate was very high for this group cause a lot of the time the doctors got it wrong. So if you look at a seesaw penis on one side and vagina on the other intersexed sits in the middle. Their is a sliding scale in the three, this is being proven with the markers now are wider than the simple XX and XY. Though the majority are XX and XY. It is possible that some of the mental traits are linked in a different fashion than what was thought. If you accept that being Gay or Lesbian is not a mental illness then you have to look at the Transgender issue as not an illness as well but as a mental trait similar to being Gay or Lesbian.
Furthermore we must also look at what the Transcommunity are saying compared to what is being said by the media and the politicians. The Transcommunity does not say they are the other gender, they are saying that is how they feel they are. This is something that is hard to understand and digest. So let me try to help your thoughts. In the morning you wake up you don't see your body. You feel your environment around you. Go to the bathroom, eat breakfast, brush your teeth and then you are at the point where you have to get dressed you look at your clothes and you feel like wearing Red. Okay now lets look at a Transperson they wake up they feel their environment around them. Go to the bathroom, but don't look in the mirror, they eat breakfast, they brush their teeth, they try to avoid the mirror. They get dressed they go about their day hoping to make it one more day. Then it happens, it snaps they can't keep doing this. This is not life, this is existence nothing more. Something has to be done, not that they want it done. They would love to be the "Norm" but they can't it is more than a feeling of RED. It is something wrong deep in their soul. They do not feel connected to the skin they are in. So what do they do, some give up, some crawl into a hole, some end it all, some fight it until it kills them, some say I have to Transition. They worry about the cost of the choice but what is the other choices if they don't. They want to live just like the "Norm". So they feel closer to the XX or the XY. So they try to live like that to make it. Now to debunk some of the crazy ideas that the media and politicians pounding into your head that is incorrect.
*Men can Breast feed, the glands are there and all they have to do is be activated.
*Transpeople do not cause problems in the bathrooms. Here is why Hormone blockers for Transwomen shut off Testosterone . That is male hormone that cause the erections, sex drive and some thought patterns associated with some forms of perversions . IF that Hormone is not working then those are no longer issues. Because news flash without the hormone erections well 90% are gone. Sex Drive is changed to an emotional connection vs physical connection.
*When it comes to parenting most Transwomen become more in tune with their children.
*No they don't perverse their children in to any form of gender role in fact they hope that their children do not have the same issues.
*When it comes to pronouns what is wrong with a little respect? They are not punishing you for being the "Norm". Call you out for dressing like a slob, bogan, white trash, or any thing else. In fact Transpeople for the most part are more inclusive of your feelings cause what they go through.

You might wonder where my in site comes from. I live it.... My story would shock and scare some of you, if I was your child. I would welcome you to read it aleanasjourney.com/about/ . In fact if you questions ask me, don't assume cause I assure you the truth will help you understand me. I wish you the best day no matter who you are or who you want to be.
~Ally

OP posts:
aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 09:37

furries are part of the Fetish scene. There is no need to included them into a link with a Gender base issue. I'm not even sure if they would give a flying (beep). Unless it had feathers.....

If you would like you could try to convince the medical profession to go back to using the term Genetic Female or Genetic Male. In some ways it made more sense but it appears that it was a bit overly complex as the abv. was GG, GF or GM.

So you can see how they chose to change it. I was scratching my head the day it was starting to be used. Because I never got the memo, lol.

OP posts:
FrancisCrawford · 01/09/2016 09:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MephistoMarley · 01/09/2016 09:39

Male and female are sufficient! No need to add 'genetic' as that's literally the only way to be male or female

aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 09:45

YouAreMyRain
"Gender is a social construct that oppresses both sexes (there are two sexes, make and female - that's biology) but particularly females"

You see you have just done it to...

I am trying to get you to think outside the box to understand that the physical side of the issue needs to be removed from the mental side of the issue. When you combine the two the chaos begins, lol.

Really if you suspend that simple issue you can grasp the idea of what I am trying to say.

OP posts:
FreshwaterSelkie · 01/09/2016 09:45

"Black Lives Matter", would only be comparable to trans activism if black activists were campaigning to have white people accept that black people can be white people too. That's not what they're doing. They're addressing racism by again asserting fundamental human dignity. In the case of the "I am Spartacus", we are pushing back against Anti-Feminist TransActivists who are pushing back the rights of women.

But if you really like the metaphor, then consider that transactivism is doing the equivalent of crashlanding into feminism shouting 'ALL LIVES MATTER!!!". And I doubt you want to be that person.

FrancisCrawford · 01/09/2016 09:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MephistoMarley · 01/09/2016 09:48

Sorry aleana there is no way to separate the physical and mental side of sex
If you're male then your brain is male. No ifs or buts. You experienced male socialisation and it has been shaped by male hormones. Males are male from head to toe inside and out.

aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 09:48

MephistoMarley
"Male and female are sufficient! No need to add 'genetic' as that's literally the only way to be male or female"

How are they? Why are they?

Intersex are neither, remember the seesaw. Suspend the simple belief of the Gender Binary, in reality it does not exist.

OP posts:
FRETGNIKCUF · 01/09/2016 09:52

Trans and black rights are not comparable. Black people don't want to be white, they want to be seen as equals. They are asking to be seen as human with equal rights. Same as women are not wishing to be seen as men.

However trans rights seemingly want us to pretend that they are the opposite sex. They are not.

IfTheCapFitsWearIt · 01/09/2016 09:52

I have C&P this from the other current thread. As I felt it was a very important post, from a parent of a child who identified as Trans.

Yesterday 10:46 NonHypotheticalLurkingParent

I am parent who's not an activist, and isn't even posting, but whose NON-ADULT child is transitioning.

I have found Mumsnet invaluable over the last few years. My daughter came as transgender to us in 2012. It was a very isolating confusing time. It came out of the blue after quite a turbulent time in the family.

At the time (as I do now) I had the opinion that you fundamentally can not change your sex. There's nothing wrong with men presenting as a woman or a woman as a man. It was an opinion I kept to myself amongst my liberal friends. When I told one liberal friend about my daughter, her reaction was blind acceptance and she actually said 'How cool'. It was not cool.

A few months after my daughter came out to us www.mumsnet.com/Talk/teenagers/1464511-My-14-Old-Daughter-Says-She-Wants-to-be-a-Boy?pg=1this thread popped up. I was not alone. There were woman who were being sensible, asking questions, having valid concerns about the same things I was.

This line on the tread struck home, I would say that if you opt for counselling, be very very careful in the counsellor that you select. If they don't know what they're doing in this delicate area, they could do more harm than good.

My daughter was very fragile, she was getting a lot of her information from the internet and and any dissension from us would result in us being being called transphobic bigots, given suicide rates, etc. She was being fed rhetoric and was gobbling it up. At the time the TA movement was gaining a louder voice, I could see the future and I didn't like it. My view was that any counsellor we saw would validate her feelings of dysphoria and not question them. She had very valid reasons to want to change herself and the situation, though it's a very common teenage feeling, to want to be someone else, but this was not explored. I was so glad that thread was not high-jacked by TAs and was allowed to stay. Though towards the end a private space was created where mums in a similar position could discuss it in private without being attacked.

As gender dysphoria is not classified as a mental health condition (a whole other issue - why is the only dysphoria not classed as a mental health issue?) we had to first be referred to the local children's services, who recommended the local LGBT youth club, however, I knew some of the people there were also transgender and knew they feeding her the same rhetoric. Thankfully, I had the posters on Mumsnet who were saying the things I was thinking. After a disastrous CAMHS appointment where they spouted the wonky science of hormonal washes in the womb and lady/man brains and given forums such as Mermaids to explore. Ultimately, we were referred to the Tavistock clinic. Now some may think this is child abuse, but I delayed our referral as I didn't trust the clinicians not to indoctrinate her further.

All the information out there at the time spun the line that if you feel like a boy you are a boy, no questions, full stop. If you disagree with your child they will kill themselves. Through Mumsnet I discovered more and more people who thought like me:

4thwavenow.com/

www.transgendertrend.com/

gendercriticaldad.blogspot.co.uk/

There's a lot I've missed out, but now, 4 years later, she's happier in herself, accepts herself and can see that by wanting to be a boy/man she's hurting women. Without the voices on Mumsnet I'm not sure I could have stayed strong in my conviction. So please MNHQ do not silence the debate because it may hurt some hypothetical person. You could argue that the majority of posts on here could be perceived as offensive to someone somewhere.

The I am Spartacus Thread - moved me to tears. There were woman standing up for me and my family.

I am NonHypotheticalLurkingParent and I am Spartacus.

almondpudding · 01/09/2016 09:52

There is male, female and a number of different intersex conditions.

FRETGNIKCUF · 01/09/2016 09:53

You know a movement is totally baseless when it constantly co-opts other unrelated and irrelevant struggles.

aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 09:55

MephistoMarley
"Sorry aleana there is no way to separate the physical and mental side of sex
If you're male then your brain is male. No ifs or buts. You experienced male socialisation and it has been shaped by male hormones. Males are male from head to toe inside and out."

To say that then you must also feel that there is no God. Because mental would be part of a spirit self.... Just saying but there is a sound professional argument called the SAGE test there are a few you can find online in some circles it is used as part of the diagnosis of Gender Dysphoria.

This is an old one from 2002.... and Online so kind of questionable compared to the real one.

www.hemingways.org/GIDinfo/sage/

OP posts:
FrancisCrawford · 01/09/2016 09:56

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

almondpudding · 01/09/2016 09:57

Why are you assuming people on this thread believe in God?!

Bizarre.

rumblingDMexploitingbstds · 01/09/2016 09:57

I did write a long answer to this, but others have replied better, and I see this is the crux of it anyway:

Suspend the simple belief of the Gender Binary, in reality it does not exist

You're entitled to believe that. I'm entitled not to believe that.

Your argument is that if I do not believe that, then I am stupid, ignorant and lost in the dark ages and no wonder everything else you are saying makes no sense to me.

I'm saying that Emperor to my eyes is running around starkers. It is not that I don't understand what you are saying. It's not that I have not bothered to inform myself. It's that I don't agree.

FrancisCrawford · 01/09/2016 09:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BombadierFritz · 01/09/2016 09:59

and we descend into woo ...

FrancisCrawford · 01/09/2016 10:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MephistoMarley · 01/09/2016 10:00

1)I don't think you would find a better or stronger advocate for equal rights among men and women than those from the Transcommunity. Why well it is simple Trasnswomen gave up the Male privileged society. So why would we erode what we identify with?

trans males don't give up male privilege. It's embedded in them from birth and not something you can take off like a coat. Trans activists are actively trying to erode female only spaces so no, they are not fighting for equal rights

  1. Trans-lesbian wow, eek what a mine field. Really okay we come to a point where the Trans-person who is still attracted to women need to be honest not only with the person they are attracted to, they need to be honest with themselves. (personal point of view) Surgery, when the funds are available. This is respectful to the other party, unless they do not wish it.

but that's not the line taken by many trans activists. Real lesbians are feeling pressured to have relationships with males with penises and are being made to feel phobic and hateful if they rule them out

  1. Morally are we talking your personal morals? Because you are not informing us to what morals you are referring to.

im talking the morals which I live by personally and professionally, shared by doctors, psychiatrists, teachers etc. That allowing children to make decisions that will impact them for their whole lives before they have the maturity to understand the consequences is morally wrong

  1. Rights, no ones rights should erode another persons rights.

see above re female spaces

  1. yes, men can breast feed the glands are common among all homo-sapiens.

is this normative human behaviour and development? No. It's an anomaly

  1. Hormone blockers are Not given out like candy. There is a lot of professional input before it even comes close to that stage. Remember we are talking about .003-.005 percent of the total population.

female genital mutilation only happens to a tiny number of kids. Sexual abuse only happens to a tiny number of kids. Doesn't make it ok

  1. The use of a penis during HRT is not as easy as you think it is. The person who is able to do so is playing a dangerous game with the meds. There are levels that are optimal for a trans person. If you change those levels other issues can happen not all are safe.

not all trans males take hormones but we are expected to unquestionably accept they are women. Their penises work

  1. "The problem that people here want to highlight is the political issues caused by transactivism, the intent is not to pick on individual trans people" now lets point something out and i'll let you think about it the statement change "Transactivism" for "Black Lives Matter" and "Trans" for "Black". Who well do you think that statement would go over.

black== trans. Don't do that

  1. "becomes meaningless and we no longer have words to discuss female lives, existence and oppression". Wow i am shocked that argument was used for black rights at one point and it did not come to pass.

no it wasn't Confused I'm talking about defining what woman means and how if it means 'anyone who feels like a woman regardless of sex then we can't discuss issues that affect us because we are female and women. What does that have to do with black civil rights?

  1. Intersexed does not have anything to do with Transgender, I completely agree with you. But the physical side of Gender is a sliding scale not so easy to define with a binary system.

gender == sex. Trans people are not intersex. Don't do that

MyPeriodFeatures · 01/09/2016 10:02

Ffs.

I don't care if someone wants to wear a dress, take hormones, have a mastectomy, hysterectomy or make any modifications to their body to be able be in their own skin.

Not at all. I will respect that person, work live alongside them as a fellow human being.

What is frankly not ok is the wholesale delusion that this person is actually male/female.

I have lived with this for 10 fucking years and my child has to call someone Daddy who had a womb at the time he was born. Because the law says so.

You know what? It's not their dysphoria anymore, it's mine, my sons and anyone else in my position.

And on so many levels it's harmful.

aleanasjourney · 01/09/2016 10:04

FRETGNIKCUF
"They are asking to be seen as human with equal rights."

Om my gosh.... you get it....Nope you don't

All Transpeople want is basic human rights as well.

OP posts:
almondpudding · 01/09/2016 10:06

Nobody on here is saying that trans people should not have basic human rights.

AbbeyBartlet · 01/09/2016 10:07

What are you expecting from your post OP

Fwiw I don't disagree with you but you won't get anywhere on here - it's the only issue where total intolerance is so prevalent.

FRETGNIKCUF · 01/09/2016 10:07

No dear. Aleana you can't read an entire paragraph. Read it again.