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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

559 replies

DioneTheDiabolist · 31/08/2016 22:08

Dear MNHQ, I am pissed off with all the Trans threads. I understand that you don't wish to stifle debate/free speech and all that shit, so I propose 4 threads where all trans posts can be hidden go.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.
A Trans Bunfight Club thread. For posters on the other two threads who want to have a bit of a ruck.
And a What MNHQ Have To Say About Trans Threads thread. For, well I think you get my drift.

All other trans posts on the site can be deleted, no other threads can be started and I can enjoy the site more.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
KimmySchmidtsSmile · 02/09/2016 23:45

poor the anti transactivist lobby do not want a separate space because they believe they are educating the ignorant. They do not need a safe space as MN is their safe space.

Bambambini · 02/09/2016 23:50

Julia Serano, from and earlier post where folk said about an random trans person on Twitter. JS is much more than a random person on Twitter. Isn't she like the Germaine Greer for Transfolk and followerd and listened too b a large audience?

CoteDAzur · 02/09/2016 23:52

"they believe they are educating the ignorant raising awareness "

I corrected that sentence for you, Kimmy. You are welcome.

Bambambini · 03/09/2016 00:02

This is an interesting piece by highly influential TW Julia Serano on her dating experiences. She doesn't seem too happy with her luck In dating lesbians and refers to them throughout as cis dykes (because they aren't interested in her) . It perhaps does give an insight in how some TW are a bit bitter against women.

Bambambini · 03/09/2016 00:16

And for those that think that trans issues don't affect them? If you have children or grandchildren, this article shows different. If it is accurate of course.

nymag.com/scienceofus/2016/07/whats-missing-from-the-conversation-about-transgender-kids.html

JudyCoolibar · 03/09/2016 00:23

Thanks Iona. Glad sense and freedom of speech prevails on MN

How does giving something a separate topic amount to restricting freedom of speech? Are MN restricting freedom of speech on disability by having a separate SN topic?

KimmySchmidtsSmile · 03/09/2016 00:28

Yeah, thanks cote, you might want to correct Izzy too if that's the case
"You say preaching, I say educating".
No? Thought not.

AnnieOnAMapleLeaf · 03/09/2016 00:31

Fuck sake. It would have been nice to have a separate area for trans threads. Back to opening threads, rolling eyes and clicking hide thread ad nauseum.

WorraLiberty · 03/09/2016 00:40

Bambambini - This is an interesting piece by highly influential TW Julia Serano on her dating experiences.

Seriously?

You're posting that on this thread? Confused

I think this is one of the points the OP and others are making here.

To many Mumsnetters It is NOT interesting

And the fact you posted that link on this thread, proves that you just don't get that.

I'm quite sure you didn't mean to come across as arrogant and pushing your interests down the OP's throat, but that's exactly how it looks to me.

And you're certainly not the only MNetter to have done this on various threads, that are not about trans issues/women's issues in relation to trans gender people.

It's the equivalent to the OP starting a thread about formula feeding and being given an 'interesting' link about breastfeeding, when she's stated she's just not interested.

Bambambini · 03/09/2016 01:20

Worra - no, I just saw a poster earlier making a claim along the line earlier of folk dismissing others of posting random comments from random folk on who have no influence or wider voice. . JS is not some random person in the trans debate. Some of her articles and views are considered and she has a high profile and following. She is influential. If you aren't interested, you don't have to open any links or even reply.

And I don't see what is particularly arrogant about posting a link on someone who was already mentioned but hey ho.

Bambambini · 03/09/2016 01:22

considered controversial

paxillin · 03/09/2016 01:30

Well, raising awareness has certainly worked. There can't be a mnetter, newbie or royalty who isn't bloody aware now.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/09/2016 01:32

Maybe its best you hide the important stuff you dont understand theres a good girl

I was trying to prove a point.

I appreciate it is considered bad form to point out grammatical errors but a post as patronising as this one deserves it. If you are going to talk down to other posters to demonstrate how enlightened and informed you are it might be advisable to proof read your posts.

Or are 4 glaring errors in a 15 word sentence "ironic"?

IzzyIsBusy · 03/09/2016 06:41

Lass.

I was not talking down to leccy.
I was being ironic and showing her that sexism can be present in her life hence the patronising sentence.

Pointing out grammatical errors is fine i am a shit speller and i know it.
It does make you look a bit of a dick though.

hazeyjane · 03/09/2016 07:59

How does giving something a separate topic amount to restricting freedom of speech? Are MN restricting freedom of speech on disability by having a separate SN topic?
The sn topic is largely for support and advice, and was wanted by the people who use it. It isn't the same thing at all, as bring a parent to a child with sn or having sn isn't a 'debate' topic, the way that transactivism and it's effect on policy and women's rights is.

Debates which involve disability crops up on the main boards often, and there are often posters saying it should be on the sn boards.....which is insulting and restricting.

IBelieveTheEarthIsFlat · 03/09/2016 09:03

Worra
Bambambini was replying to the post addressed to me, on this thread,, which said that Julia Serano was a random twitter poster and that my post was tedious.

I couldn't be arsed to reply to the poster as was likely to react to the crass rudeness of it and am pleased that Bambamini did post eloquently that JS was in fact a very influential and prominent TA, making her quote not random or tedious at all

So not need to have a go at her. I await your wrath of course

PageStillNotFound404 · 03/09/2016 10:23

I'm glad MN aren't considering a separate trans forum.

I'm not a regular or previous poster on trans threads, or FWR. I'm another who, until the recent fallout over the thread about the person who calls themselves Ada Wells, had no idea this politicisation of what it means to be one sex or the other and the accompanying insidious erosion of women's rights was happening, nor the terrifying impact this could be - and is already, in places - having on children and teenagers who are going through entirely natural phases of uncertainty about identity and sexuality. I had never heard of the quite frankly horrifying concept of the "cotton ceiling" or the pressure being brought to bear on lesbians to date transwomen with penises and being subjected to insults such as "cisdyke" if they refused.

If these discussions had been hidden away in a Trans section I would not have read them. I would have assumed such a topic was for those dealing with the realisation of being trans or supporting loved ones going through transition. I would have remained ignorant of the fact that what has been discussed recently is not actually about being trans but about being female, and the impact of transactivist ideology on what it means to be - not "feel" - a woman. I would not have read the heartbreaking testimony of one poster, Molly something (I'm sorry I can't remember her real name) who told us about her teenage daughter being targeted by TRAs for daring to run a support group for young lesbians. I would have continued sleepwalking into a future that threatens TRAs shaping political policy because they are the ones shouting loudest, they are the ones closing down alternative discussion, they are the ones screaming "transphobic!" at every dissenting viewpoint, however rationally informed. A future where the rights so hard fought for by the women who came before me are eroded, and the women who come after me suffer for it.

I am not transphobic. I will support anyone in the right to be able to live their lives how they wish, free from hatred, persecution and discrimination. In that, I have not changed. But that right can't come at the expense of others' rights - in this case women's. And that's why I am Spartacus.

So thank you, MN. I don't think you've been perfect on this issue but in this instance I think you have made the right call.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 03/09/2016 10:25

I was not talking down to leccy.
I was being ironic and showing her that sexism can be present in her life hence the patronising sentence

If you say so. I don't use words used for sex organs as insults but the expression you used would be accurate assessment of my reaction to your original post.

Felascloak · 03/09/2016 10:38

kimmy that second thread was very concerning. Are we all supposed to be blindly supportive of parents proposals just because they've used the word trans? On all the other boards, people get robust advice if what they are saying/have posted in the past is concerning or dangerous. I've seen loads in relationships.

fascicle · 03/09/2016 10:41

CoteDAzur
"they believe they are educating the ignorant raising awareness "

I corrected that sentence for you, Kimmy. You are welcome.

Raising awareness? It feels to me like a recruitment drive using a heavy dose of sensationalism and an absence of evaluation. Some people are fully aware of both sides of the debate but arrive at conclusions different from the ones being pushed on these threads.

IzzyIsBusy · 03/09/2016 10:46

If you say so. I don't use words used for sex organs as insults but the expression you used would be accurate assessment of my reaction to your original post.

Fair enough.

RiverTam · 03/09/2016 10:55

fascile can you show us some examples of 'a heavy dose of sensationalism and an absence of evaluation', that's not something I've noticed on the various trans threads I've been on, though I may have missed it.

Personally I would love to think that, for example, Stephonknee, the middle aged male who identifies as a 6yo girl was a fiction and not an advisor to the Canadian government, but unfortunately it's the truth.

KimmySchmidtsSmile · 03/09/2016 11:05

Felas it was cote who said that LGBT children was designated a safe space for support rather than debate. The OP received support from parents in the same situation like Elsa who was then accused of "making it all about her" ffs, then some klaxon must have gone off somewhere as posters piled in and accused her of being everything from smug iirc because she had a smiley emoji in the title to dragging up her DD's anorexic past. The point was the OP had not posted in AIBU or Feminist Theory. She had posted in a support group, a so-called designated "safe place" which was then invaded by persons insisting on raising her awareness. These were not alternative experiences from mums who have trans teens, they were posters who had decided she was in the wrong and must be told that in no uncertain terms.

Felascloak · 03/09/2016 11:16

Interesting because I read that thread as people showing concern about the medical treatment of a child with complex issues. I don't think anyone was "raising awareness". Fwiw I posted on there myself because I had read the OPs other threads about her daughters eating disorders and was very worried that the daughter wasn't getting appropriate medical treatment or support for a whole range of body issues. I don't feel that was in any way inappropriate.

HexBramble · 03/09/2016 11:30

I didn't ever open any trans related threads until very recently then something struck a chord and I started reading them all. We have every reason to feel unnerved about this issue and as someone who doesn't do social media of any kind, MN is the only safe place for me to gain a feminist perspective on this.

To say that it doesn't affect your day to day lives is, frankly ignorant. And please, before you reach for your keyboard to respond to that, I'm not trying to insult nor offend. I was ignorant of these issues until I delved a little further and now I'm wary of how things seem to be moving in this country.

I'm doubly wary of this issue because speaking openly and honestly about my fears will provoke someone calling me transphobic, or homophobic or TERF, yet I am none of these. But we have an agenda in this country which seems hell bent in supporting people's perceived rights and being 'right on' even if it means pissing all over the rights of women in the UK. This trans-related entitlement is muscling its way into our schools (I speak from experience) and the bile that's spouted by many teenagers in their self defence is almost identical to what I read on the links provided in the Spartacus and other threads. It's frightening. These teenagers have no knowledge of the struggle between men's and women's rights, no idea of the feminist perspective in the UK, no idea of the inequality and the history of inequality yet they'll happily jump on the bandwagon and start yelling TERF if they cannot muscle into the girls toilets and wear make-up to school.