I Would Like To Propose A Solution To The Trans Threads Problem

[DioneTheDiabolist]

Dear MNHQ, I am pissed off with all the Trans threads. I understand that you don't wish to stifle debate/free speech and all that shit, so I propose 4 threads where all trans posts can be hidden go.

A Fuck Trans thread. For posters who hate that people are trans.
A Yay Trans thread. For posters who wish to support trans people.
A Trans Bunfight Club thread. For posters on the other two threads who want to have a bit of a ruck.
And a What MNHQ Have To Say About Trans Threads thread. For, well I think you get my drift.

All other trans posts on the site can be deleted, no other threads can be started and I can enjoy the site more.

I don't see anything in usual's posts trying to shut this thread down, and frankly I don't believe that anyone really believes that any poster has the power to do that. If anyone thinks she's breaking any rules they need to report it: shouting her down and being insulting and unpleasant hardly puts you on the moral high ground.

Sure, some threads in AIBU get unpleasant and plenty of people are put off by that also. Need I point out the truism about two wrongs not making a right?

Izzy, if you think that In-laws need their own topic, start a thread in Site Stuff about it.

The people arguing the toss for trans threads everywhere are not really covering themselves in glory here.

But thanks izzy for perfectly illustrating one of the most irritating things about the trans threads:

Any disagreement is "silencing", "shutting down the conversation", or most ludicrously still, "gaslighting".

You don't want a debate, you want to share anecdotes from the far corners of the internet and pat each other on the back about what brave, feminist activists you all are and how stupid everyone else is.

That's it. That's your "debate" which you insist on having all over Mumsnet and you can namecall all you want, I do not care.

Not once did i insult usual. Or break talk guidlines. Nor did she so why would i report?
It is my observation only.

Two wrongs dont make a right.....are you serious?
So we are only allowed one topic to be nasty and all other topics and discussions must be flowery and light?

Trans thread evoke strong opinions from both sides. That is not a bad thing. However shoving such an emotive topic in a corner is a bad thing. Especially a topic that at its core is discussing the errosion of womens rights. Given this site has mostly female members doesnt that seem a bit like silencing the women?

Trans stuff is like Christmas.
There's a whole topic for it so people can avoid but some fucker will still put it in chat so hey ho what to do.

Izzy, if you think that In-laws need their own topic, start a thread in Site Stuff about it.

No i think i will choose the grown up option of just not opening them or if i do closing them and moving on.

On a good number of AIBUs though, after an initial viper sting- the OP often accepts YABU or YANBU with good grace and further understanding after all of the different contributions (or they disappear if it's a unanimous YABU!)

Who knew ultra feminists were so bitchy?!

doesn't that seem a bit like silencing the women?

No, it doesn't.

And stop waving the "affects all women" card. Most women in RL could not care less. Most women on MN could not care less.

I guess it's the aggresive agenda pushing I dislike.

There's plenty of vegans on MN but you don't see them pushing the merits of paleo lifestyles in everyone's faces (much).

Any disagreement is "silencing", "shutting down the conversation", or most ludicrously still, "gaslighting".

I highlighted nothing of the sort.

I accused usual of trying to shut down the debate for her belitting post that did not include any form of debate at all.
I also only used the word silencing in my explanation of why i dont think it should have its own topic. Also i dont think i have said gaslighting once.

Twist my posts all you like it just proves that you are not capable of coming up with a half way decent reason posters can simply not read trans threads.

This is not a debate thread. It is a request thread.

And stop waving the "affects all women" card. Most women in RL could not care less. Most women on MN could not care less.

That is sad. But good. It means that these women have not yet experienced a transwomen with a penis invading their safe space or their life and i hope they never do.

At the end of the day the errosion of womens rights affects all women. Just because it hasnt affected you yet doesnt mean it wont.

This is not a debate thread. It is a request thread.

Natural progression.

RiverTam Thu 01-Sep-16 21:23:32
"There is a poster on the 'alternative to Spartacus' thread who describes (I'm putting this in a nutshell) how information she learnt from the MN trans threads has meant her DD has been kept off puberty blockers and the like, and how 4 years on her DD is in a much better place.

That is why these threads need to be kept on the main boards and not shunted off to the side. One child who's not ended up going down a road of unnecessary medication and surgery to get to someone it is not possible for her to get.

That's how important it is."

^ This.

This is not a debate thread. It is a request thread.

Natural progression.

That's you told, Dione. Best sit down like a good girl now

I still don't get why clicking into a thread, finding it's not for you, and clicking out is so onerous.
Maybe we can all unite behind the banner Ban Ambigous Thread Titles Now!
(Obviously, someone else can spell the hard words on the actual banner)

So we are only allowed one topic to be nasty and all other topics and discussions must be flowery and light?

That is so blatantly not what I said, Izzy, that I'm not sure there's much point engaging with you on the point.

Have we got any hard facts on how many transwoman-with-a-penis types are deliberately invading so-called safe spaces?
Is it completely prevalent now that you can't even get changed at the gym without a willy with a wig on waving at you? Or is this all just a storm in a teacup?

I guess it's the aggresive agenda pushing I dislike.

What agenda is that exactly leccy?

I accused usual of trying to shut down the debate for her belitting post that did not include any form of debate at all.

But people don't have to include any form of debate in their posts. Look all over MN, you'll see posts with no element of debate in them. Although arguably expressing a view in the manner Usual did is debating. Either way, it really is stretching it to say that a post like hers is trying to shut down the debate.

leccy, there is so much more to the discussion than the concept of a female penis and transwomen as predators. There are issues that affect us all but the discussion isn't being had because it's all about the terf slurs, bathroom issues and misuse of language.

We need to move beyond this but we seem to have set ourselves up to go around and around these issues on MN. Plenty of gender critical women are willing to have an open, honest and respectful debate.

I think another reason women don't engage is that they see a lot of exaggeration of the threat. In my admittedly limited experience, the trans women I come across in RL tend just to want to get on with living their lives as they want to; they have no desire to have sex with anyone other than fully consenting men and women, they're highly unlikely to end up in prison so the issue of women's prisons doesn't arise, and they have no problem whatsoever with women talking about things like periods and pregnancy that will never affect them directly. They generally do tend to go into Ladies' toilets, where they use them in precisely the same way women do and probably don't even get noticed.

I think someone pointed out elsewhere that many of the threads are based on a fear that it could become law that, essentially, if someone self-declares themselves to be members of the opposite sex that gives them an absolute right to go into safe spaces, and could mean pre-operation transsexuals being allowed to demand entry to rape crisis centres and the like. Frankly I think it is highly unlikely that that is going to be sanctioned by the law in this country in the foreseeable future; people have been going on about it on trans threads on here for ages and during that time there has been precisely no sign that it is about to be adopted into law in the UK. There comes a point when it looks a bit as if people are working themselves up about a threat that is more perceived than real. Hence the fact that threads become very repetitive without getting anywhere.

In my view leccy it's not that there are outliers on the internet. You can always find something on the internet to shock you.
Why this is different is that these rather extreme views are being listened to, and policy is changing because of it.
Nobody is upset about ordinary transexuals living their life the way they want, they don't tend to harm anyone and they should be protected from discrimination.
But you have rapists being put into a women's prison - what could possibly go wrong in this situation? Why not, if they feel they are women and wear dresses,that means they are women? I can't remember exactly who, but the body that oversees psychiatric care in prison has expressed concern about the amount of violent or sex offenders who are discovering they are trans after sentencing and demanding entry to the women's estate.

There are just massive loopholes all over the place

Look at Stephonknee. This 50 yr old man left his wife and six kids, and now identifies as a 6 yr old girl, lives with 'foster parents' and enjoys an incestous relationship with her dad. Ok an outlier from the fringes of the internet, you'd think, but no - advisor on trans issues to the Canadian government.

No, not natural progression. If I wanted to start a debate thread I would have started one in the relevant Topic. If you want a debate Izzy, perhaps you should join one or start your own. And give it a nice, clear title. Then other MNetters know straight away if it's something they want to read or contribute to or ignore.

Judy
But it IS happening in the US now, mandated by Obama. Self declared transwomen (trangirls?) boys in girls locker rooms etc. Where the US goes, we will follow.

If state authorities don't comply, they are being threatened with losing all their funding. What do you think it going to happen?