MNHQ - if you are going to contribute your thoughts to the trans debate, can you use a new thread

[Ego147]

Because there are people who are part of the debate but have hidden and don't want to contribute to the threads you want to post on.

So please can you post your thoughts on a new thread. It would be open, its own thread and clear to see - rather than hidden in a post on a thread.

And I do appreciate that you have a lot of issues here to think about and you are not going to please everyone. Whatever decision you come to will be 'the wrong one for some'.

Enjoy your and at the staff meeting you will inevitably be having about this.

How would you yourself define 'transphobia'? Can you please give some real-world examples

This is not the thread to discuss that.

This is not the thread to discuss that.

What a surprise....

What a surprise

It is a thread to ask MNHQ about where to post their response. I am sure that other people understand that and can respond without such an attitude.

There is one constructive discussion going on here about trans issues and another for supporting women on the Spartacus thread.

"Certainly a lot of stuff said on here would not be allowed on many other forums."

Very true, Ego, and this appalling truth - that there are now so many places where women aren't allowed to speak self-evident truths about biology and male violence, that women are oppressed because of their female biology and that anyone born with a penis is male - is what all of this; the Spartacus thread and all the rest of the furore is about.

Women are being bullied and censored by men. Which is nothing new. But when you can get fined in New York for "misgendering" we're moving into a whole new realm of oppression, a worldview that thinks it's ok to force people to lie about reality. It's a very big deal and women are becoming aware of just how profoundly the trans agenda is damaging our interests and those of our children.

Mothers are the main users of this site, and I suspect mothers are, on the whole, the last people likely to accept the claim that a penis is a female organ.

If Ego does have a habit of derailing, then fine to note the irony of posts asking others to take debate elsewhere.

But I think the request to take the debate elsewhere, is fine. There's the current Bullshit thread, where discussion is taking place.

I think we have all generally, with the odd blip, managed to be pretty clear about differentiating between the threads and posting appropriately, I think it is fine for Ego to request that this continues on this thread.

Thanks oscar

(and yes, I do appreciate the irony)

I don't think it's wrong for MNHQ to respond on a separate thread, you know we are all going to have an opinion on what they have to say.

I think Ego is catching a lot of flack just because Ego started this thread! I'm not so sure Oscar would be getting as hard a time if Oscar had started this thread.

I know you were agreeing with the idea, Oscar, I think some people are against only because it was raised by Ego.

I took the man comment to be a dig at Ego, but I could be wrong.

Ego gets accused of derailing (or usually "me-railing") even when she is defending herself against accusations on the very thread supposedly derailed.

Sorry for the derail. Agree with new thread by MNHQ if there is a change of talk guidelines on this or any other issue.

I think MNHQ should start a thread also.

I have quite a few hidden because they are hard to read when it's about someone you love.

It's important that everyone reads the guidelines when they are decided and the best way for that to happen is a new thread.

Ego147
How would you yourself define 'transphobia'? Can you please give some real-world examples?

This is not the thread to discuss that.^

Why? It's central to the whole reason of why this and many other threads exists, and so many women have found it necessary to say 'I am Spartacus' because they all are expected to give the courtesy of pronouns to an aggressive white apparently heterosexual male who calls other women (and also transsexuals, for I was one at the end of that individual's wrath) 'cuntscum'.

I'm neutral on whether MN respond on that thread or the new one.

If they do respond.

The MNHQ definition of transphobia is on this thread, started by the now banned PosieParker - search for their comment on the thread

Yep, mnhq should start their own thread. That's just common sense, surely? Why all this whining about it being suggested?!

PS, they should unban posie too...

Posieparker's banned?????

Yep, for saying that - at some theoretical point in the future - she would not use the wrong pronouns.

Thank you OlennasWimple

Here we are:

"We don't have a hard and fast 'definition' of what we feel transphobia is. ... So we try to apply common sense and perhaps the way we deal with transphobia develops with the discussions about it on threads. For that reason we have encouraged debate as much as possible and it has often been an informative journey.

...

In terms of misgendering, which often comes up, we again go by the rule of thumb that if, for example, a celebrity who was male had just come out as a (trans)woman, we wouldn't wave the banhammer at everyone who accidentally said 'he' for a while after. But if we felt they were misgendering deliberately in order to cause offence, we would. Same goes for general discussion about the whole issue. Questions about gender and biology, if they are meant in the spirit of polite and interested discussion, we would leave to stand. Comments about 'blokes in dresses' and that sort of thing, we would take issue with.

In general we just think it's nice to be nice, really."

So no real definition there. Just, women, be nice. (It looks dangerously close to "Smile!")

I think MN have a problem because there is no legal or widespreadly (is that a word?) accepted definition of transphobia and they do mention that it changes all the time as MRA's move the goalposts.

Why? It's central to the whole reason of why this and many other threads exists

I am sure that when MNHQ respond to these threads (which they have told me they will but there are staff away on AL at the moment), then people can discuss what transphobia is. I am sure that people will have different views.

But we will have to wait - I am sure that MNHQ are receiving a range of views and opinions at the moment - both on threads and through emails.

As olenna has pointed out, MNHQ have already posted their views before.

On the basis of Mumsnet's definition of transphobia I reckon I'm pretty safe to be able to say that it would be an unconsiable insult to women to give 'Ada J Wells' the courtesy of observing his pronouns. So I will not afford him that respect, as he is an abusive man.